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      If it is magnanimously granted that the corporate media’s primary job is to inform consumers of its content about what is going on in the world, that is. Parenthetically, I do not grant as much. Getting it this wrong cannot merely be the result of incompetence. Mendacity must be in play.

      Anyway, a Harvard-Harris poll last Spring asked respondents “about how many people do you think are caught trying to enter through the southern border each year?”. Five possible ranges were offered as answers in multiple choice format.

      The subsequent graph is extraordinarily generous in what is counted as a correct answer. Respondents are given credit for answering either “250,000 to 500,000” or answering “over 500,000”, since the reported total number of apprehensions for calendar year 2018 was 467,000, while 2019 is on pace to come in somewhere around 1,000,000.

      So on a five item multiple choice question, we’re giving credit for two possible responses. If participants randomly selected answers, the rate of correct responses would be 40%. Well, not a single demographic category of the 26 the survey reported results for did as well as they would have had they randomly guessed:

      The American public doesn’t just lack knowledge about what is happening along the southern border, it has anti-knowledge of the situation. The residuals for each of the demographic groups presented in the graph above errantly think fewer than 250,000 attempted border-crossers are apprehended annually.

      If we don’t want extremist lunatics shooting up Walmarts in desperate frustration over what they perceive as an invasion the powers that be refuse to acknowledge even exists, let alone deal with–and I certainly don’t–we could stand to have our vaunted media organizations report something approximating the truth about an issue that consistently polls near or at the top of the list of the things Americans find concerning, instead of constantly lying through their teeth about it.

       
      • Category: Culture/Society, Ideology • Tags: Immigration, Media bias, Polling 
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      1. 216 says: • Website

        I shudder to think of what happens when the GOP is destroyed nationally as it was in California. When millions wake up to demographic oblivion…well you see why the corporate media has a tendency to downplay what is going on.

        Otoh, Argentina is about to re-elect Kirchner’s party, which means more economic illiteracy and a potential escape hatch for us.

        • Replies: @Oblivionrecurs
        The best least violent possibilities we can reasonably hope for is a inter-party struggle among the left - i.e black coalition vs young white socialist

        Or that the left getting power is such a momentous failure that we see giant backlash.

        Hopefully a combination of the two

        Because i don't see the trend of falling marriages changing anytime soon
        , @neutral
        Say what you want about Argentina, but at least they have not doing the white genocide that the USA is doing. Long term their prospects are going to be much better than the brown blob of the area formerly known as the USA.
        , @Feryl
        The lion's share of GOP elites are just concerned about keeping the pork flowing to agribusiness, the Pentagon, and the oil industry. Everything else comes way after those concerns. If they gave a damn about restoring order and security, they'd start throwing academics behind bars for brainwashing their students into hating America. During the whole Reaganite era, there's been a growing subversion movement promoted from within academia, that the GOP has basically done absolutely nothing about. The results of that cowardice speak for themselves. The cucks have been so busy anxiously running away from the "archaic" practices of the conservative early-mid 20th century middle class, lest they be accused of some sort of ism or phobia, that many Americans are now awash in decadence. Good job, you worthless assholes.

        A wholesome society wouldn't regularly glorify gambling, promiscuity, reckless spending, homosexuality, and gender bending*. Yet these are all things that have gotten substantially worse over the last 40 years. To the extent that these trend are defied, it's because modern decadent elites are defied. It's a far cry from the 1920's-1970's, when leaders (e.g., older people) were sane and conservative for the most part (according to the GSS, pre-Boomer generations were much more conservative than the Boomers were, in the 1970's). Most awful modern trends began with Boomers in the late 60's and 70's, and we've been plagued by their bull shit ever since. But what do you expect from the biggest generation of drug abusers to ever exist?

        *Youth culture of the late 60's and 70's glorified this stuff also, whereas in the 80's and 90's "youth" culture became more wholesome to some degree because Gen X isn't as perverted or monstrous as Boomers are. But Millennials and Gen Z came of age when Boomers were assuming leadership roles in the 90's and 2000's, so guess what? In stated values, Millennials and Gen Z are even more perverted than Boomers are (although in terms of actual behavior, the Boomers are far worse).
      2. The point of no return has been reached……Patriotard I’m a Yankee Doodle Dandy is now a surgically mutilated Tranny Freak…….A nuclear “SCREAMING ACROSS THE SKY”…it’s a comming…..Nuclear War with Christian Russia is inseparable from THE GREAT REPLACEMENT…..Post-Nuclear-post-1965 Immigration Reform Act America…a Cormac McCarthy Novel….The mutant spawn Cannibals of INVADE THE WORLD-INVITE THE WORLD ripping out the intestines of the Preppers…..

        “Toto…I don’t think we are in Kansas anymore…..”

        • Replies: @War for Blair Mountain
        And the drinks are on me....
        , @Audacious Epigone
        Some people just want to watch the world burn.
      3. @War for Blair Mountain
        The point of no return has been reached......Patriotard I’m a Yankee Doodle Dandy is now a surgically mutilated Tranny Freak.......A nuclear “SCREAMING ACROSS THE SKY”...it’s a comming.....Nuclear War with Christian Russia is inseparable from THE GREAT REPLACEMENT.....Post-Nuclear-post-1965 Immigration Reform Act America...a Cormac McCarthy Novel....The mutant spawn Cannibals of INVADE THE WORLD-INVITE THE WORLD ripping out the intestines of the Preppers.....

        “Toto...I don’t think we are in Kansas anymore.....”

        And the drinks are on me….

      4. Wow – that is pretty amazing! Now that I think about it, I really cannot recall ever having heard a serious analysis on TV about the numbers involved. Which makes sense since many people are not interested in making this a pragmatic discussion but one over emotions.

        Peace.

        Completely off-topic, but – hell yes, Palestinian Authority giving evidence for its legitimacy:

        The US cutting off aid to the West Bank and Gaza (since earlier this year) may end up having positive effects on the ground. Win, win for everyone!

        • Replies: @Twinkie
        PA is still made up of corrupt gangsters. That it is opposed to homosexuals makes it no better.
        , @iffen
        Pure speculation on my part, but I have read enough of the early founding history of Israel to know that many of the Palestinian "leaders" were on the Zionist payroll. That could be at work here to help deflect some of the SJW anger toward the Palestians and away from the Israelis.
        , @Audacious Epigone
        I feel a bit bad making light of something of great import to you, but watching the anti-nationalist American left twist itself in a pretzel trying to maintain how evil Israel, with its flamboyant gay pride parades every other weekend, is crushing poor put upon the 'homophobic' Palestinians makes me smile.
      5. I wonder how the left will frame immigration as they gain more political power. Will it be continued as a non-issue as millions cross over or will they over pursue and shed light to how awful the situation is

        Still the vast majority of illegals live in proximity to the border, people in upstate Michigan or Minnesota are just now feeling the first waves of immigration. No wonder so little is known

        • Replies: @UrbaneFrancoOntarian
        Yup... nothing makes one racist quite like actually having to live around these 3rd world aliens.

        You really have to be a moron not to notice what is going on in 2019 (but alot of white people are complete and utter morons!)
      6. So, female-black-Democrats are the lowest information demographic slice (on this issue)… while male-others-Republicans are the highest information slice. Yay me!

        • Replies: @Twodees Partain
        That's just so great. Maybe you could make up a cheer along the lines of, "We don't suck quite as badly! Go, Red Team, Go!".

        ahaha Sometimes I crack my own self up.
      7. @216
        I shudder to think of what happens when the GOP is destroyed nationally as it was in California. When millions wake up to demographic oblivion...well you see why the corporate media has a tendency to downplay what is going on.

        Otoh, Argentina is about to re-elect Kirchner's party, which means more economic illiteracy and a potential escape hatch for us.

        The best least violent possibilities we can reasonably hope for is a inter-party struggle among the left – i.e black coalition vs young white socialist

        Or that the left getting power is such a momentous failure that we see giant backlash.

        Hopefully a combination of the two

        Because i don’t see the trend of falling marriages changing anytime soon

        • Replies: @El Dato

        The best least violent possibilities we can reasonably hope for is a inter-party struggle among the left – i.e black coalition vs young white socialist
         
        That would be like one of those wild hungry animals vs. poor sods spectacles of the late Roman Empire.
      8. @Talha
        Wow - that is pretty amazing! Now that I think about it, I really cannot recall ever having heard a serious analysis on TV about the numbers involved. Which makes sense since many people are not interested in making this a pragmatic discussion but one over emotions.

        Peace.

        Completely off-topic, but - hell yes, Palestinian Authority giving evidence for its legitimacy:
        https://twitter.com/BenWeinthal/status/1163084015156584448

        The US cutting off aid to the West Bank and Gaza (since earlier this year) may end up having positive effects on the ground. Win, win for everyone!

        PA is still made up of corrupt gangsters. That it is opposed to homosexuals makes it no better.

        • Replies: @Talha
        No, it makes it better (it would be much worse if they were corrupt AND backed the poz), just doesn’t fix the corruption issue. Maybe not getting millions in free gibz from the US will help with that problem as well.

        Peace.
      9. @Oblivionrecurs
        I wonder how the left will frame immigration as they gain more political power. Will it be continued as a non-issue as millions cross over or will they over pursue and shed light to how awful the situation is

        Still the vast majority of illegals live in proximity to the border, people in upstate Michigan or Minnesota are just now feeling the first waves of immigration. No wonder so little is known

        Yup… nothing makes one racist quite like actually having to live around these 3rd world aliens.

        You really have to be a moron not to notice what is going on in 2019 (but alot of white people are complete and utter morons!)

      10. Most people are almost as innumerate as the average news reporter, excuse me, “journalist”. That’s the problem. You can tell them 800,000 and that’s not any different from 80,000 to them. They just don’t ever do the math or see the scale of things.

        • Replies: @dfordoom

        “journalist”. That’s the problem. You can tell them 800,000 and that’s not any different from 80,000 to them. They just don’t ever do the math or see the scale of things.
         
        Big numbers are essentially meaningless to most people unless they're experts in a particular field. If a particular project, let's say a solar energy project, will cost ten billion dollars, is that a lot of money or not very much? Unless you happen to know how much a natural gas project or a hydroelectric scheme of a nuclear power plant producing the same amount of electricity would cost you really have no way of knowing.

        Is a million immigrants a year a lot or not very many? Unless you know how that compares to other countries as a percentage of total population, or how it compares to immigration levels in the past, it doesn't mean anything.

        Is a murder rate of 5 per 100,000 people incredibly high or incredibly low? Again you'd need to know the rates in the past and the rates in comparable countries.

        Is 2% GDP growth a really great or a really poor economic performance? Unless you know what that translates to in per capita terms and what the rate is in other comparable economies and what the rate was in the past it's meaningless.

        Such numbers are also meaningless unless you know the trends. If your murder rate was 4.5 per 100,000 last year and it's 5 this year it's worrying . If it was 5.5 last year it's encouraging.

        It's not that the vast majority of people are stupid (although that's always a possibility) or that they're innumerate (although that's a very strong possibility) it's more that most people can't possibly have the necessary specialised knowledge in every field. If you tell me your car can go from 0 to 60 in 12 seconds I might be impressed. I might be a good deal less impressed if I knew that a beat-up 25-year-old Chevy could do it in 11.5 seconds.
      11. If we don’t want extremist lunatics shooting up Walmarts in desperate frustration over what they perceive as an invasion the powers that be refuse to acknowledge even exists, let alone deal with–and I certainly don’t–we could stand to have our vaunted media organizations report something approximating the truth about an issue that consistently polls near or at the top of the list of the things Americans find concerning, instead of constantly lying through their teeth about it.

        They view such knowledge as “problematic”, because if it didn’t exist, there wouldn’t be anyone shooting up Walmarts over it.  They believe that if they told the truth there would be a lot more such shooters.

        They may even be right.  Where they are wrong is in believing that the problem is the shooters, not the invaders they’re shooting.

        • Replies: @Feryl
        Empires are often deeply in denial about their looming collapse, at least among the elite class (whereas proles in the German, or British, Or American empire can just feel the economic and social corrosion that marks the dying phase of an empire).

        I've done it before, but I might as well do it again: for the most part (ya know, not including the Civil War) the US built itself up in every way imaginable from it's initial settlement by the Brits through the early 60's. Then, well, we know what happened. The 1964 Civil Rights Act. The Tet Offensive in '68. Nixon being framed by the CIA shortly after he easily won re-election in 1972. Reagan giving the go-ahead to elite decadence by gutting their tax burden in 1981. GHW Bush and Clinton giving us NAFTA in 1993. The obscene orgy of Wall Street speculation that occurred from the mid-90's-mid 2000's, under Clinton and Bush. "Iraq has nukes" from Bush in 2003. Obama failing to punish any major players after the 2008 melt-down. Trump winning an election in 2016 by promising to build a wall, and then stabbing Americans in the back by doing more to promote the security of Israel.
        , @Audacious Epigone
        Could be, though the people who are going to react in such a destructive way are going to dig deeper than the corporate media news headlines anyway. Burying the truth may have worked in the past, but it's not working now.
      12. we could stand to have our vaunted media organizations report something approximating the truth about an issue that consistently polls near or at the top of the list of the things Americans find concerning, instead of constantly lying through their teeth about it

        “Sorry, AE, it’s time to harangue you about the irreducible stain of slavery upon America again. Maybe next year, oh wait, election year, sorry. We’ll get back to you on this, swearsies.”

      13. Just for those who don’t know when the mass media messaging was changed on this issue-the day that will live in infamy–April 2, 2013:

        https://blog.ap.org/announcements/illegal-immigrant-no-more

        The elites view manipulation of language as potty training for the masses.

      14. @Oblivionrecurs
        The best least violent possibilities we can reasonably hope for is a inter-party struggle among the left - i.e black coalition vs young white socialist

        Or that the left getting power is such a momentous failure that we see giant backlash.

        Hopefully a combination of the two

        Because i don't see the trend of falling marriages changing anytime soon

        The best least violent possibilities we can reasonably hope for is a inter-party struggle among the left – i.e black coalition vs young white socialist

        That would be like one of those wild hungry animals vs. poor sods spectacles of the late Roman Empire.

      15. And that is just the apprehension count … Americans have a much bigger problem than they realise.

        Well, if there’s any justice in the universe, a giant Earth-killing asteroid will shortly follow the end of the second term of Stacey Abrams’ Presidency.

        https://www.space.com/asteroid-apophis-2029-flyby-planetary-defense.html

        • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
        I guess we have a more appropriate replacement for the "burn it all down" or "cleansing fire" phrases now--"Asking for apophis!"
      16. The American public doesn’t just lack knowledge about what is happening along the southern border, it has anti-knowledge of the situation.

        The possession of anti-knowledge indicates high IQ. Indoctrination Quotient. Or conversely, a negative Intelligence Quotient.

        How about a negative SAT to determine how much anti-knowledge one possesses.

        • Replies: @Mr. Rational

        How about a negative SAT to determine how much anti-knowledge one possesses.
         
        I can see it now:  BSIT (BS Indoctrination Test) results required to vote, with a passing score of no more than 15% BS accepted.
        , @Audacious Epigone
        Ha, though in this particular case college-educated, high-income earners were the most likely to get the answer correct.
      17. @Twinkie
        PA is still made up of corrupt gangsters. That it is opposed to homosexuals makes it no better.

        No, it makes it better (it would be much worse if they were corrupt AND backed the poz), just doesn’t fix the corruption issue. Maybe not getting millions in free gibz from the US will help with that problem as well.

        Peace.

      18. Let us not forget the 2020 census in this connection, and how the government rallied to make sure that it would studiously avoid informing itself about the illegal immigrant population, and how Trump ignominiously caved on the issue.

        By the way, the idea that Trump actually possesses any male genitalia at all is nowhere in evidence. His children were probably fathered by Kato Kaelin

      19. @Talha
        Wow - that is pretty amazing! Now that I think about it, I really cannot recall ever having heard a serious analysis on TV about the numbers involved. Which makes sense since many people are not interested in making this a pragmatic discussion but one over emotions.

        Peace.

        Completely off-topic, but - hell yes, Palestinian Authority giving evidence for its legitimacy:
        https://twitter.com/BenWeinthal/status/1163084015156584448

        The US cutting off aid to the West Bank and Gaza (since earlier this year) may end up having positive effects on the ground. Win, win for everyone!

        Pure speculation on my part, but I have read enough of the early founding history of Israel to know that many of the Palestinian “leaders” were on the Zionist payroll. That could be at work here to help deflect some of the SJW anger toward the Palestians and away from the Israelis.

        • Replies: @Talha
        Yes, Israel has funded rival Palestinian groups in a divide-and-conquer strategy before. I wouldn’t be surprised if these guys get at least some partial under the table funding from the same.

        Peace.
        , @Talha
        Also off-topic, though it might be shoe-horned under "media failing spectacularly"...the Chinese state is horrible at propaganda. I know men like Godfree Roberts seem to have some kind of a religious attachment to it, but it's when simple stuff comes out like this that the entire edifice of his arguments come crashing down:
        https://twitter.com/arslan_hidayat/status/1163577393442934789

        "Say you are free, comrade! Say the words."

        I'll post this on the next article about Uyghurs and see if it can drive the "Wu Mao" army to go ape.

        Peace.
      20. What’s that smell in this room? Didn’t you notice it Brick? Didn’t you notice a powerful and obnoxious odor of mendacity in this room?…There ain’t nothin’ more powerful than the odor of mendacity…You can smell it. It smells like death.

        Cat on a Hot Tin Roof

        Big Daddy, Act 2.

      21. The white population is decreasing all over the world. I think they want the immigrants to fill the gap, and to lower the standard of living of those living here.

      22. @iffen
        Pure speculation on my part, but I have read enough of the early founding history of Israel to know that many of the Palestinian "leaders" were on the Zionist payroll. That could be at work here to help deflect some of the SJW anger toward the Palestians and away from the Israelis.

        Yes, Israel has funded rival Palestinian groups in a divide-and-conquer strategy before. I wouldn’t be surprised if these guys get at least some partial under the table funding from the same.

        Peace.

      23. @Achmed E. Newman
        Most people are almost as innumerate as the average news reporter, excuse me, "journalist". That's the problem. You can tell them 800,000 and that's not any different from 80,000 to them. They just don't ever do the math or see the scale of things.

        “journalist”. That’s the problem. You can tell them 800,000 and that’s not any different from 80,000 to them. They just don’t ever do the math or see the scale of things.

        Big numbers are essentially meaningless to most people unless they’re experts in a particular field. If a particular project, let’s say a solar energy project, will cost ten billion dollars, is that a lot of money or not very much? Unless you happen to know how much a natural gas project or a hydroelectric scheme of a nuclear power plant producing the same amount of electricity would cost you really have no way of knowing.

        Is a million immigrants a year a lot or not very many? Unless you know how that compares to other countries as a percentage of total population, or how it compares to immigration levels in the past, it doesn’t mean anything.

        Is a murder rate of 5 per 100,000 people incredibly high or incredibly low? Again you’d need to know the rates in the past and the rates in comparable countries.

        Is 2% GDP growth a really great or a really poor economic performance? Unless you know what that translates to in per capita terms and what the rate is in other comparable economies and what the rate was in the past it’s meaningless.

        Such numbers are also meaningless unless you know the trends. If your murder rate was 4.5 per 100,000 last year and it’s 5 this year it’s worrying . If it was 5.5 last year it’s encouraging.

        It’s not that the vast majority of people are stupid (although that’s always a possibility) or that they’re innumerate (although that’s a very strong possibility) it’s more that most people can’t possibly have the necessary specialised knowledge in every field. If you tell me your car can go from 0 to 60 in 12 seconds I might be impressed. I might be a good deal less impressed if I knew that a beat-up 25-year-old Chevy could do it in 11.5 seconds.

        • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
        No, this is not an engineering or scientific endeavor. Most people can give you a number within 10% or so of how many Americans there are, just because they've heard or read "300 million" or "325 million" or "330 million" enough times. It takes numeracy, and that alone, not some specialized knowledge of immigration* to just go "hey, 1 million a year... man, that's over 3% of the country added in a decade" and picture adding more than 3% more strange people each decade to one's hometown, meaning 3 or 4 more non-whites to your kid's grade, etc..

        Is a murder rate of 5 per 100,000 people incredibly high or incredibly low? Again you’d need to know the rates in the past and the rates in comparable countries.
         
        See that's another social example - no specialized knowledge is required unless you are acting like an actual sociologist (like A.E. here, Sailer etc, vs. the idiot PC intellectuals). Indeed, most would have no idea if that's a good or bad year. However, they can go "hey, that's like 5 people in my city, using the city limits, or 15 people in the metro area each year. That's not too bad." Give them the rate for the ghetto and they can see the danger.

        The innumeracy is especially bad with women as most don't even WANT TO know. Therefore, when one kid in the nation gets abducted (a terrible sad story, I'm sure) we get "Amber's Law" or some crap. They have no idea how little the chances of this happening to their own kids is because "math is hard".

        .

        * that I obtained mostly from the expert writers on VDare.com.
        , @Audacious Epigone
        The point is well taken, though counting people isn't really a particularly specialized field of knowledge. Most people have rough idea of the population of the state they live in, for instance. If people in Montana knew that more people where apprehended at the southern border in a single year than live in their entire state, it would shock many of them, I think.
      24. @216
        I shudder to think of what happens when the GOP is destroyed nationally as it was in California. When millions wake up to demographic oblivion...well you see why the corporate media has a tendency to downplay what is going on.

        Otoh, Argentina is about to re-elect Kirchner's party, which means more economic illiteracy and a potential escape hatch for us.

        Say what you want about Argentina, but at least they have not doing the white genocide that the USA is doing. Long term their prospects are going to be much better than the brown blob of the area formerly known as the USA.

        • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
        Who says, Neutral? They stopped letting the Europeans in very much about a century ago, and that's about when their hopes of being a country like the (1950's) US faded.

        Uruguay, well that's different. It's 90% white, mostly real Spaniards, Germans, Italians, etc.
        , @anonymous
        From a 2011 article:

        "Argentina's current law treats immigration as a human right and consequently prioritizes the reunification of families, facilitates the ability of immigrants to obtain residency, and allows free access to health care and education. Immigrants are also granted a right to legal counsel. All residents of neighboring countries are eligible for residency, regardless of whether or not they have a job."

        During Macri's tenure, he tightened up some immigration controls but, if his opponent is elected, it's likely that it'll revert to the 2011 scenario. If it wasn't for the incompetence and corruption of the govt, both right and left, which strangles the economy, mass migration would be much more of a problem.
      25. @iffen
        Pure speculation on my part, but I have read enough of the early founding history of Israel to know that many of the Palestinian "leaders" were on the Zionist payroll. That could be at work here to help deflect some of the SJW anger toward the Palestians and away from the Israelis.

        Also off-topic, though it might be shoe-horned under “media failing spectacularly”…the Chinese state is horrible at propaganda. I know men like Godfree Roberts seem to have some kind of a religious attachment to it, but it’s when simple stuff comes out like this that the entire edifice of his arguments come crashing down:

        “Say you are free, comrade! Say the words.”

        I’ll post this on the next article about Uyghurs and see if it can drive the “Wu Mao” army to go ape.

        Peace.

        • Replies: @Twodees Partain
        "I’ll post this on the next article about Uyghurs and see if it can drive the “Wu Mao” army to go ape."

        All three of them? At the same time?
        , @Ghan-buri-Ghan
        Agree that the Chinese are incompetent at combating Western propaganda.

        They should just expel all Jews and Muslims from their country, period.
      26. @Twinkie
        So, female-black-Democrats are the lowest information demographic slice (on this issue)... while male-others-Republicans are the highest information slice. Yay me!

        That’s just so great. Maybe you could make up a cheer along the lines of, “We don’t suck quite as badly! Go, Red Team, Go!”.

        ahaha Sometimes I crack my own self up.

      27. @Talha
        Also off-topic, though it might be shoe-horned under "media failing spectacularly"...the Chinese state is horrible at propaganda. I know men like Godfree Roberts seem to have some kind of a religious attachment to it, but it's when simple stuff comes out like this that the entire edifice of his arguments come crashing down:
        https://twitter.com/arslan_hidayat/status/1163577393442934789

        "Say you are free, comrade! Say the words."

        I'll post this on the next article about Uyghurs and see if it can drive the "Wu Mao" army to go ape.

        Peace.

        “I’ll post this on the next article about Uyghurs and see if it can drive the “Wu Mao” army to go ape.”

        All three of them? At the same time?

        • Replies: @Talha
        The more the merrier. I just want to see their reaction to it.

        Peace.
      28. @dfordoom

        “journalist”. That’s the problem. You can tell them 800,000 and that’s not any different from 80,000 to them. They just don’t ever do the math or see the scale of things.
         
        Big numbers are essentially meaningless to most people unless they're experts in a particular field. If a particular project, let's say a solar energy project, will cost ten billion dollars, is that a lot of money or not very much? Unless you happen to know how much a natural gas project or a hydroelectric scheme of a nuclear power plant producing the same amount of electricity would cost you really have no way of knowing.

        Is a million immigrants a year a lot or not very many? Unless you know how that compares to other countries as a percentage of total population, or how it compares to immigration levels in the past, it doesn't mean anything.

        Is a murder rate of 5 per 100,000 people incredibly high or incredibly low? Again you'd need to know the rates in the past and the rates in comparable countries.

        Is 2% GDP growth a really great or a really poor economic performance? Unless you know what that translates to in per capita terms and what the rate is in other comparable economies and what the rate was in the past it's meaningless.

        Such numbers are also meaningless unless you know the trends. If your murder rate was 4.5 per 100,000 last year and it's 5 this year it's worrying . If it was 5.5 last year it's encouraging.

        It's not that the vast majority of people are stupid (although that's always a possibility) or that they're innumerate (although that's a very strong possibility) it's more that most people can't possibly have the necessary specialised knowledge in every field. If you tell me your car can go from 0 to 60 in 12 seconds I might be impressed. I might be a good deal less impressed if I knew that a beat-up 25-year-old Chevy could do it in 11.5 seconds.

        No, this is not an engineering or scientific endeavor. Most people can give you a number within 10% or so of how many Americans there are, just because they’ve heard or read “300 million” or “325 million” or “330 million” enough times. It takes numeracy, and that alone, not some specialized knowledge of immigration* to just go “hey, 1 million a year… man, that’s over 3% of the country added in a decade” and picture adding more than 3% more strange people each decade to one’s hometown, meaning 3 or 4 more non-whites to your kid’s grade, etc..

        Is a murder rate of 5 per 100,000 people incredibly high or incredibly low? Again you’d need to know the rates in the past and the rates in comparable countries.

        See that’s another social example – no specialized knowledge is required unless you are acting like an actual sociologist (like A.E. here, Sailer etc, vs. the idiot PC intellectuals). Indeed, most would have no idea if that’s a good or bad year. However, they can go “hey, that’s like 5 people in my city, using the city limits, or 15 people in the metro area each year. That’s not too bad.” Give them the rate for the ghetto and they can see the danger.

        The innumeracy is especially bad with women as most don’t even WANT TO know. Therefore, when one kid in the nation gets abducted (a terrible sad story, I’m sure) we get “Amber’s Law” or some crap. They have no idea how little the chances of this happening to their own kids is because “math is hard”.

        .

        * that I obtained mostly from the expert writers on VDare.com.

        • Agree: Audacious Epigone
        • Replies: @Feryl

        The innumeracy is especially bad with women as most don’t even WANT TO know. Therefore, when one kid in the nation gets abducted (a terrible sad story, I’m sure) we get “Amber’s Law” or some crap. They have no idea how little the chances of this happening to their own kids is because “math is hard”.
         
        Rationality has been declining since circa 1970. Americans once, to a large extent, believed in science and objectivity. Then the 70's happened, and we've never quite recovered since (although from I read the early 90's were the lowest point of interest in "New Age" stuff since the 60's). So basically for the last 50 years we've been heading down the, well, womanish, road of selecting an "attractive" (and usually self-serving) argument and then clinging to it regardless of all evidence to the contrary.
        , @dfordoom

        It takes numeracy, and that alone, not some specialized knowledge of immigration* to just go “hey, 1 million a year… man, that’s over 3% of the country added in a decade” and picture adding more than 3% more strange people each decade to one’s hometown
         
        Yes, that's a valid point. One of the easiest ways to lie to people is to conveniently forget to let then know how the numbers will add up over time. Advertisers do this all the time. We have this great offer and it will only cost you five bucks a day. Five bucks a day is nothing. But it's the best part of two grand a year. People will fall for that trick almost every time.

        So you do need at least a base level of numeracy. But you need context as well. And if the issue involves economic effects you need at least a smidgeon of specialised knowledge.

        Risk is the other thing that ordinary people just cannot think sensibly about. You tell them that "studies show" that people who eat food food containing Epsilon-542 Enzymes have a higher risk of developing the rare but nasty Gibson-Wilkinson Syndrome they panic. When you try to point out that the fact that it increases your likelihood of developing this syndrome from 5 chances in 100 million to 5.1 chances in 100 million they still panic.

        Add in multiple risk factors that have to be balanced - Epsilon-542 Enzymes increase your likelihood of developing Gibson-Wilkinson Syndrome from 5 chances in 100 million to 5.1 chances in 100 million but they reduce your chances of getting Blenkinsop's Disease from 2 in 100 million to 1 in 100 million and they have no idea what to do.
      29. @neutral
        Say what you want about Argentina, but at least they have not doing the white genocide that the USA is doing. Long term their prospects are going to be much better than the brown blob of the area formerly known as the USA.

        Who says, Neutral? They stopped letting the Europeans in very much about a century ago, and that’s about when their hopes of being a country like the (1950’s) US faded.

        Uruguay, well that’s different. It’s 90% white, mostly real Spaniards, Germans, Italians, etc.

        • Replies: @Rosie

        Uruguay, well that’s different. It’s 90% white, mostly real Spaniards, Germans, Italians, etc.
         
        How about a White Republic in Uruguay?

        It would never be allowed. You'd see middle class White families flourishing like Aussies under the White Australia Policy, wrecking the Diversity is Our Strength Narrative. No Country Left White!
      30. @Twodees Partain
        "I’ll post this on the next article about Uyghurs and see if it can drive the “Wu Mao” army to go ape."

        All three of them? At the same time?

        The more the merrier. I just want to see their reaction to it.

        Peace.

      31. @Achmed E. Newman
        Who says, Neutral? They stopped letting the Europeans in very much about a century ago, and that's about when their hopes of being a country like the (1950's) US faded.

        Uruguay, well that's different. It's 90% white, mostly real Spaniards, Germans, Italians, etc.

        Uruguay, well that’s different. It’s 90% white, mostly real Spaniards, Germans, Italians, etc.

        How about a White Republic in Uruguay?

        It would never be allowed. You’d see middle class White families flourishing like Aussies under the White Australia Policy, wrecking the Diversity is Our Strength Narrative. No Country Left White!

        • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
        I'm not so sure, Rosie. It's all a matter of who really runs the joint. The Latin American nations have their problems, with their endless cycles of Communism, then hard-core repression (usually going a bit overboard too) to beat them back. However, they don't seem to have ever gotten into the PC, SJW, and diversity-is-our-strength crap.
        , @Twinkie

        How about a White Republic in Uruguay?
         
        It will come crashing down once somebody starts demanding inexpensive Thai food and low-cost lawn care.

        Sure, you could automate, but that would immiserate the middle class and enrich Japanese corporations (they are ahead in robotics).

        There is no escape. ;)
        , @dfordoom

        How about a White Republic in Uruguay?

        It would never be allowed
         
        You know what will turn such an earthly paradise into a hellhole? White liberals.
      32. @Rosie

        Uruguay, well that’s different. It’s 90% white, mostly real Spaniards, Germans, Italians, etc.
         
        How about a White Republic in Uruguay?

        It would never be allowed. You'd see middle class White families flourishing like Aussies under the White Australia Policy, wrecking the Diversity is Our Strength Narrative. No Country Left White!

        I’m not so sure, Rosie. It’s all a matter of who really runs the joint. The Latin American nations have their problems, with their endless cycles of Communism, then hard-core repression (usually going a bit overboard too) to beat them back. However, they don’t seem to have ever gotten into the PC, SJW, and diversity-is-our-strength crap.

        • Replies: @L Woods
        Disagree on the “hard core repression going overboard.” Brazilian junta killed a grand total of 400 leftists in two decades; even relatively bloody Argentine junta only get rid of 20000 iirc. Compare to Castro’s body count in the days immediately following the seizure of Havana alone.
        , @Jim bob Lassiter
        " However, they don’t seem to have ever gotten into the PC, SJW, and diversity-is-our-strength crap."

        They're working on it real hard and fast as we klick and klack. I have a female divorcee in-law connection who is a hybrid attorney/social worker specializing in divorces, child kidnappings, child custody/support cases, adoptions and the like-- all in the trans-national context in the Americas and Europe. I get lots of info and drama from her.
      33. total number of apprehensions for calendar year 2018 was 467,000

        Yes, well, I remember a Dr. Laura episode back in 1997 in which she was counseling a caller who was equivocating about marrying her fiancé because he had recently been arrested for a DUI.

        When the girl attempted to make excuses for the boy by saying that it was his first offense, Dr. Laura replied, “Oh, I assure you – it may be the first time he’s been caught, but it definitely isn’t his first offense.”

        So no, those numbers are low.

        • Replies: @Twodees Partain
        Yes, seizing upon the numbers of wetbacks caught isn't a clear way of seeing what the total might be. Who knows how many are not caught for each one grabbed up by ICE? What if the ratio is 10 or 12 never caught for each one ICE grabs?

        It's one of those things that we know we don't know as opposed to what we think we know when instead we don't even know that we don't know. Donald Rumsfeld would have a panic attack trying to describe it in his "Known Unknown" terms.
        , @Audacious Epigone
        Agree, though in fairness to the respondents, the poll question asked about apprehensions along the border, not the total number of people trying to cross.
      34. OT: saw this comment on EJMR and had to post it. Describes modern life better than my pickled brain can these days:

        Sorry bros, 30 year olds dont find “soul mates” or “true love” or even “a b*tch maybe worth wifing.” the single girl of your dreams does not exist at your age. theres no female peer waiting to be your devoted true love. shes already loved and lost or was never capable of loving in the first place and in the “best case” scenario where she agrees to marry youll only ever be her husband accessory and sperm donor. youll never matter more to her than her granite countertops or exposed brick or shoe collection. and youll never truly know her or share a life of intimacy with her. just a checking account and and a netflix password.

        that kind of marriage is for other people. like your grandfather. you remember him, right? the man who didnt meet a broken 30 year old shrew on tinder when he decided to start a family?

        sorry. its just not how people are built and its definitely not how our society works. ljl at finding a pure of heart 29 year girlfriend you will love, honor and cherish for the rest of your life. ljl at knowing you want some b*tch from jdate to be the mother of your children.

        this is just as dumb (and sad) as posters asking how to make new friends moving to a new city at age 34. oh wow what a difficult and confusing question! jk its actually really f**king simple because the answer is you cant make friends in a new city at age 32. people dont make friends–real friends who truly enrich their lives–at 32. they already have those friends and youre just a guy theyre being nice to or hanging out with to pass the time.

        there are no solutions. you done f**ked up if youre romantically/socially isolated at 30. its called life and it already happened for everyone else and youre just the dumbass who decided to start trying with a new job/city/okcupid profile like youre going to still maek it with a loving woman who is 31 and single but totally not broken or slvtty.

        and youre going to find a community of chill, loyal friends and neighbors who genuinely care about you and your family and it will finally be morning in america!

        but then again no.

        it wont be morning in america in your 30s. youre aleady slipping down the slope of a life wasted and in your heart you know that. its not a question of what will happen. it happened. you missed your chance and its only getting worse. time only moves in one direction, f*ggot.

        heres the only advice that can help you: hit the motherf**king reset button and hope your next life isnt the dumpster fire your current one is.

        Yay

        • Replies: @Rosie

        theres no female peer waiting to be your devoted true love. shes already loved and lost or was never capable of loving in the first place and in the “best case” scenario where she agrees to marry youll only ever be her husband accessory and sperm donor. youll never matter more to her than her granite countertops or exposed brick or shoe collection.
         
        The degeneracy of the manosphere in a nutshell. Just listen to this pathetic, whiny manchild. One wonders what a woman would have to do or say to make him feel like he "matters" to her.

        Of course, what he says here is wrong. The countertops and shoe collection aren't what matters, but he is right that it's not about him. As soon as children come along, it's about them. This self-absorbed degenerate has no concept of the meaning of marriage, that joy in a marriage comes precisely from setting the self aside and raising children together.

        He really has no business getting married.
        , @Intelligent Dasein
        This guy probably thinks that he's kicking some gritty realism that others need to hear (and evidently there are many who agree with that assessment), but in reality he's just whining in a manner no different than the ones he describes.

        Our grandfathers did not have true loves and soulmates, and they did not live in a prelapsarian paradise of unspoiled women. The facts of life do not differ from one generation to the next. Now and always, the majority of marriages have been, if not quite unhappy, then at least something short of ecstatic. The only difference is that our grandfathers took the plunge earlier and swallowed the sting of lost illusions with more dignity. They kept moving forward instead of stopping to complain---a strategy which has always comprised the better part of success. To an outsider looking in, their lives looked easy. We don't see the anxieties, disappointments, labors, and pains of others; we seldom ever even empathize with them when we know of them, such is the existential solitude and cruelty of this mortal life; but our grandfathers suffered in their time, just as we do in ours.

        The 30-year-old losers and cock-carousel sluts do have a way out of their predicament if they want it: they can accept one another as their sole remaining best option, and try to do their best from there on out. Sure, it may not be ideal, but it isn't too late, either. The choice before them is no different than the choice that is always before everyone, viz. to do the necessary or do nothing. Whoever you are, wherever you are, you can stop being part of a mistake starting now.

        I do not intend any of this to sound haughty and cavalier. I am not arguing that our own time does not pose a special set of challenges. We live in a decadent age when all the institutions of society are in an advanced state of disrepair. It will probably require the self-sacrifice of millions before anything is set right again, and I am not at all making light of that fact. On the contrary, all I am saying is we need to start making those sacrifices. If wifing up a former slut is your part to play in this battle, that isn't the hardest and heaviest duty to befall a man.

        Will she be a perfect wife? No. But fuck it, so what? You can handle it. Can't afford to raise a kid? Yes, you can. You can't take your money with you when you die anyway. Past your prime and need help getting it up? Take the god damn tadalafil. Addicted to porn? Don't waste your time trying to break the habit. Just find a quiet moment to whack off when nobody is home and keep it away from the children so that they don't follow in your footsteps. In short, don't even try to make anything better. Just stop giving a shit. It can be a very numinous moment when you realize that you can move forward in spite of the difficulties.

        And if you do that, you will have done the best you can under the circumstances, and someday your grandson will look back at your life and think it was all charmed and predestined.

        Or you can abort that grandson by not even trying. The choice is yours.
        , @Steve in Greensboro
        I wonder why there are all these mass shootings?
      35. This problem originates in another media failure. Most of these hundreds of thousands would be better of in their countries. Nominally, their wages would increase, but in fact, their workload gets heavier, their spare time shorter, and their houses smaller. Unfortunately, they have been told by Americans that the US is the land of opportunity, every evidence of the contrary is a rare case or a straight lie, and the people shitting the streets of San Francisco are probably mental. There’s also the idea that any wanker waving an US flag and carrying a green card becomes an American, when, in fact, lots of born-Americans are treated worse than a new arrival from Israel, South Africa, or even India.

        While this could be useful for keeping the masses of Americans in self-blaming apathy, it attracts the Guatemalans.

        This Epigone seems equally convinced that the American Dream is true, and working is all it takes to succeed in America. So what could go wrong in broadcasting that?

        • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
        Expound on the last paragraph. I'm not sure I follow. It takes a lot more than a decent wage to live anything like a "successful" life. I don't discuss it much here, but I am a Stoic in a deeply philosophical sense. I strive to attain Seneca's understanding of materialism. I think I'm pretty close to attaining it. Concern for my children does complicate things a bit, but not as much as you might think.
      36. @Achmed E. Newman
        I'm not so sure, Rosie. It's all a matter of who really runs the joint. The Latin American nations have their problems, with their endless cycles of Communism, then hard-core repression (usually going a bit overboard too) to beat them back. However, they don't seem to have ever gotten into the PC, SJW, and diversity-is-our-strength crap.

        Disagree on the “hard core repression going overboard.” Brazilian junta killed a grand total of 400 leftists in two decades; even relatively bloody Argentine junta only get rid of 20000 iirc. Compare to Castro’s body count in the days immediately following the seizure of Havana alone.

        • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
        I didn't say in equal measure to the Commies though. The Commies always take the gold with their body counts.
      37. @95Theses

        total number of apprehensions for calendar year 2018 was 467,000
         
        Yes, well, I remember a Dr. Laura episode back in 1997 in which she was counseling a caller who was equivocating about marrying her fiancé because he had recently been arrested for a DUI.

        When the girl attempted to make excuses for the boy by saying that it was his first offense, Dr. Laura replied, “Oh, I assure you – it may be the first time he’s been caught, but it definitely isn’t his first offense."

        So no, those numbers are low.

        Yes, seizing upon the numbers of wetbacks caught isn’t a clear way of seeing what the total might be. Who knows how many are not caught for each one grabbed up by ICE? What if the ratio is 10 or 12 never caught for each one ICE grabs?

        It’s one of those things that we know we don’t know as opposed to what we think we know when instead we don’t even know that we don’t know. Donald Rumsfeld would have a panic attack trying to describe it in his “Known Unknown” terms.

        • Replies: @95Theses
        Exactly so. Those numbers – however egregious they may appear – essentially represent "best case scenarios".
      38. The corporate propaganda apparatus in the USA is evil and immoral and treasonous.

        The corporate media pushes mass legal immigration and mass illegal immigration and amnesty for illegal alien invaders.

        There are no corporate media outlets in the USA that push for an immigration moratorium, nor are there any that call for the immediate deportation of all illegal alien invaders.

        The corporate media in the USA pushes globalization and neoliberalism and financialization and transnationalism and White Genocide and White Race Replacement and multicultural mayhem.

        Billionaire foreigners such as Carlos Slim of Mexico have bought and paid for the open borders mass immigration invasion policy position of the New York Times.

        Billionaire propaganda purveyor Rupert Murdoch pushes mass legal immigration and mass illegal immigration and amnesty for illegal alien invaders.

        Billionaire casino mogul Shelly Adelson has bought and paid for the mass immigration invasion policy position of the Republican Party.

        PLUTOCRACY

        OLIGARCHY

        MASS MEDIA PROPAGANDA

        Tweets from 2015:

      39. “Is a murder rate of 5 per 100,000 people incredibly high or incredibly low? Again you’d need to know the rates in the past and the rates in comparable countries.”

        These questions do require special knowledge of crime stats. It also requires a definition of “low constitutes “high” and high and low in the US verses foreign countries assessments. In a nation of 300 plus million . . .

        20,000 murders . . . is roughly 0.006666666666666667% not even 1% that would generally be considered low bu if those 20,000 occurred in a single community say New York City with a population of 8,000,000 it is still less than 1% at roughly 0.25%, but the impact might be “jarring”, especially noting the substantial rate of increase from previous years.

        —————————————

        1 million people represents low level warfare in my opinion. A fence simply is not going to cut it. And I remain ever dumbfounded by blacks who support it male or female. Those that do have no idea what they are inviting upon themselves.
        —————————-

        “Ann Coulter

        @AnnCoulter
        · Sep 9, 2015
        I’m quoting a NYT editorial: “Let Syrians Settle Detroit”

        And yet no one seems capable of making an honest woman of Miss Coulter —- disturbing. Would that I had the money.

        • Replies: @Jim bob Lassiter
        Once you go Black, you can't go back. Burn the coal, pay the toll.
      40. @L Woods
        OT: saw this comment on EJMR and had to post it. Describes modern life better than my pickled brain can these days:

        Sorry bros, 30 year olds dont find "soul mates" or "true love" or even "a b*tch maybe worth wifing." the single girl of your dreams does not exist at your age. theres no female peer waiting to be your devoted true love. shes already loved and lost or was never capable of loving in the first place and in the "best case" scenario where she agrees to marry youll only ever be her husband accessory and sperm donor. youll never matter more to her than her granite countertops or exposed brick or shoe collection. and youll never truly know her or share a life of intimacy with her. just a checking account and and a netflix password.

        that kind of marriage is for other people. like your grandfather. you remember him, right? the man who didnt meet a broken 30 year old shrew on tinder when he decided to start a family?

        sorry. its just not how people are built and its definitely not how our society works. ljl at finding a pure of heart 29 year girlfriend you will love, honor and cherish for the rest of your life. ljl at knowing you want some b*tch from jdate to be the mother of your children.

        this is just as dumb (and sad) as posters asking how to make new friends moving to a new city at age 34. oh wow what a difficult and confusing question! jk its actually really f**king simple because the answer is you cant make friends in a new city at age 32. people dont make friends--real friends who truly enrich their lives--at 32. they already have those friends and youre just a guy theyre being nice to or hanging out with to pass the time.

        there are no solutions. you done f**ked up if youre romantically/socially isolated at 30. its called life and it already happened for everyone else and youre just the dumbass who decided to start trying with a new job/city/okcupid profile like youre going to still maek it with a loving woman who is 31 and single but totally not broken or slvtty.

        and youre going to find a community of chill, loyal friends and neighbors who genuinely care about you and your family and it will finally be morning in america!

        but then again no.

        it wont be morning in america in your 30s. youre aleady slipping down the slope of a life wasted and in your heart you know that. its not a question of what will happen. it happened. you missed your chance and its only getting worse. time only moves in one direction, f*ggot.

        heres the only advice that can help you: hit the motherf**king reset button and hope your next life isnt the dumpster fire your current one is.
         
        Yay

        theres no female peer waiting to be your devoted true love. shes already loved and lost or was never capable of loving in the first place and in the “best case” scenario where she agrees to marry youll only ever be her husband accessory and sperm donor. youll never matter more to her than her granite countertops or exposed brick or shoe collection.

        The degeneracy of the manosphere in a nutshell. Just listen to this pathetic, whiny manchild. One wonders what a woman would have to do or say to make him feel like he “matters” to her.

        Of course, what he says here is wrong. The countertops and shoe collection aren’t what matters, but he is right that it’s not about him. As soon as children come along, it’s about them. This self-absorbed degenerate has no concept of the meaning of marriage, that joy in a marriage comes precisely from setting the self aside and raising children together.

        He really has no business getting married.

        • Replies: @216
        The comment is actually useful, because it encourages the idea of a "male wall" at 30, which the manosphere is usually hostile towards. They often infer that a man's value increases until 35 or so, and faces a gradual decline vis a vis the "wall" that women hit around 30, with a total drop off around 40.

        The options are not good for many average beta males, and a lot of this has to do with their own behavior (thirst, obesity, pron). But it also has to do with (mass immigration driving down wages, spiking housing prices, affirmative action) structural factors that have reduced the aggregate value of men and forces a dual-earner household that precludes a "traditional" arrangement.

        And this is not to forget that around half of all marriages end in divorce, even in a society where cohabitation and birth out of wedlock is not stigmatized as it was even 20 years ago.

        Your shaming language is truly unhelpful, you are intruding on a male space rather than face the difficult task of using shaming language against the university-indoctrinated feminist women that inhabit the younger generations.
        , @Twinkie

        that joy in a marriage comes precisely from setting the self aside and raising children together.
         
        The purpose of marriage is two-fold - unitive and procreative. You cannot have one without the other.
        , @L Woods
        Trololo
        , @Jim Christian
        Gee, Rosie, did the manosphere guy touch a nerve in you? Get a little close to describing you? Protest much? I've been around a million couples where the woman acts JUST as described. Used to do sound and TVs and phones for the wealthy sorts around DC and I can tell you the women in that 'price range' got cuntier and cuntier every year that went by. And per the stats, half the women would cash out with an "I'm not haaaaaapy" divorce. The other half continued to make their husbands miserable. Because with broads, ask how much is enough and the answer is only, and always, "MORE!!! NOW!!!!". Those are the facts, Sweetheart. It's how women operate.
      41. “Give them the rate for the ghetto and they can see the danger.”

        Which is why people stay out of the low income areas unless they actually have a reason to be there. So whether said number matters in significance is largely also dependent on where they reside or spend there time. So even the rate in question would have varying answers dependent on location.

        An increase of 22% would be of concern id the numbers were consistently on the increase of a trend. But it just a a spike or an outlier — not so much.

        Here again . . . specific knowledge and situational awareness matter.

      42. @Twodees Partain
        Yes, seizing upon the numbers of wetbacks caught isn't a clear way of seeing what the total might be. Who knows how many are not caught for each one grabbed up by ICE? What if the ratio is 10 or 12 never caught for each one ICE grabs?

        It's one of those things that we know we don't know as opposed to what we think we know when instead we don't even know that we don't know. Donald Rumsfeld would have a panic attack trying to describe it in his "Known Unknown" terms.

        Exactly so. Those numbers – however egregious they may appear – essentially represent “best case scenarios”.

      43. 216 says: • Website
        @Rosie

        theres no female peer waiting to be your devoted true love. shes already loved and lost or was never capable of loving in the first place and in the “best case” scenario where she agrees to marry youll only ever be her husband accessory and sperm donor. youll never matter more to her than her granite countertops or exposed brick or shoe collection.
         
        The degeneracy of the manosphere in a nutshell. Just listen to this pathetic, whiny manchild. One wonders what a woman would have to do or say to make him feel like he "matters" to her.

        Of course, what he says here is wrong. The countertops and shoe collection aren't what matters, but he is right that it's not about him. As soon as children come along, it's about them. This self-absorbed degenerate has no concept of the meaning of marriage, that joy in a marriage comes precisely from setting the self aside and raising children together.

        He really has no business getting married.

        The comment is actually useful, because it encourages the idea of a “male wall” at 30, which the manosphere is usually hostile towards. They often infer that a man’s value increases until 35 or so, and faces a gradual decline vis a vis the “wall” that women hit around 30, with a total drop off around 40.

        The options are not good for many average beta males, and a lot of this has to do with their own behavior (thirst, obesity, pron). But it also has to do with (mass immigration driving down wages, spiking housing prices, affirmative action) structural factors that have reduced the aggregate value of men and forces a dual-earner household that precludes a “traditional” arrangement.

        And this is not to forget that around half of all marriages end in divorce, even in a society where cohabitation and birth out of wedlock is not stigmatized as it was even 20 years ago.

        Your shaming language is truly unhelpful, you are intruding on a male space rather than face the difficult task of using shaming language against the university-indoctrinated feminist women that inhabit the younger generations.

        • Replies: @Twinkie

        Your shaming language is truly unhelpful
         
        She’s the first to lose it when someone uses “shaming language” against “degenerate” women. That’s why - despite her occasionally good observations - she gets no love here. No one likes a hypocrite.
        , @Rosie

        Your shaming language is truly unhelpful, you are intruding on a male space
         
        I will bug off the manosphere just as soon as the manosphere gets the fuck out of White advocacy.

        rather than face the difficult task of using shaming language against the university-indoctrinated feminist women that inhabit the younger generations.
         
        I take it that you recognize the merit in my critique of the degenerate manosphere, which, you refuse to admit, is just the mirror image of the feminism you all claim to hate.

        Your "solution" to feminism is to go and act like precisely the douchebags feminists have always said you are.

        You see 216, I'm not really interested in the gender wars. I'm interested in White well-being. If that is your chief concern, I'm not interested in fighting your battles for you.
        , @L Woods
        On the contrary, her shaming language is helpful. It reminds me how utterly full of shit feminists/nice guy so cons are, and of the puerile quality of female argumentation generally. Focuses the mind, as it were.

        Post really had little to do with a male wall, as much as you for some reason would love that. It’s more that there’s a general social wall, and it’s probably at 25 or younger.
      44. @Rosie

        Uruguay, well that’s different. It’s 90% white, mostly real Spaniards, Germans, Italians, etc.
         
        How about a White Republic in Uruguay?

        It would never be allowed. You'd see middle class White families flourishing like Aussies under the White Australia Policy, wrecking the Diversity is Our Strength Narrative. No Country Left White!

        How about a White Republic in Uruguay?

        It will come crashing down once somebody starts demanding inexpensive Thai food and low-cost lawn care.

        Sure, you could automate, but that would immiserate the middle class and enrich Japanese corporations (they are ahead in robotics).

        There is no escape. 😉

        • Replies: @216
        I'll have you know that we will be using top-of-the-line Daimler-Benz, Siemens and IG Farben robotics.
      45. @216
        The comment is actually useful, because it encourages the idea of a "male wall" at 30, which the manosphere is usually hostile towards. They often infer that a man's value increases until 35 or so, and faces a gradual decline vis a vis the "wall" that women hit around 30, with a total drop off around 40.

        The options are not good for many average beta males, and a lot of this has to do with their own behavior (thirst, obesity, pron). But it also has to do with (mass immigration driving down wages, spiking housing prices, affirmative action) structural factors that have reduced the aggregate value of men and forces a dual-earner household that precludes a "traditional" arrangement.

        And this is not to forget that around half of all marriages end in divorce, even in a society where cohabitation and birth out of wedlock is not stigmatized as it was even 20 years ago.

        Your shaming language is truly unhelpful, you are intruding on a male space rather than face the difficult task of using shaming language against the university-indoctrinated feminist women that inhabit the younger generations.

        Your shaming language is truly unhelpful

        She’s the first to lose it when someone uses “shaming language” against “degenerate” women. That’s why – despite her occasionally good observations – she gets no love here. No one likes a hypocrite.

        • Replies: @216
        http://www.unz.com/pfrost/young-male-and-single/
      46. @Rosie

        theres no female peer waiting to be your devoted true love. shes already loved and lost or was never capable of loving in the first place and in the “best case” scenario where she agrees to marry youll only ever be her husband accessory and sperm donor. youll never matter more to her than her granite countertops or exposed brick or shoe collection.
         
        The degeneracy of the manosphere in a nutshell. Just listen to this pathetic, whiny manchild. One wonders what a woman would have to do or say to make him feel like he "matters" to her.

        Of course, what he says here is wrong. The countertops and shoe collection aren't what matters, but he is right that it's not about him. As soon as children come along, it's about them. This self-absorbed degenerate has no concept of the meaning of marriage, that joy in a marriage comes precisely from setting the self aside and raising children together.

        He really has no business getting married.

        that joy in a marriage comes precisely from setting the self aside and raising children together.

        The purpose of marriage is two-fold – unitive and procreative. You cannot have one without the other.

      47. @WorkingClass
        The American public doesn’t just lack knowledge about what is happening along the southern border, it has anti-knowledge of the situation.

        The possession of anti-knowledge indicates high IQ. Indoctrination Quotient. Or conversely, a negative Intelligence Quotient.

        How about a negative SAT to determine how much anti-knowledge one possesses.

        How about a negative SAT to determine how much anti-knowledge one possesses.

        I can see it now:  BSIT (BS Indoctrination Test) results required to vote, with a passing score of no more than 15% BS accepted.

      48. @Twinkie

        How about a White Republic in Uruguay?
         
        It will come crashing down once somebody starts demanding inexpensive Thai food and low-cost lawn care.

        Sure, you could automate, but that would immiserate the middle class and enrich Japanese corporations (they are ahead in robotics).

        There is no escape. ;)

        I’ll have you know that we will be using top-of-the-line Daimler-Benz, Siemens and IG Farben robotics.

        • Replies: @Twinkie

        top-of-the-line Daimler-Benz, Siemens and IG Farben robotics.
         
        Built by Turks and about as reliable?
      49. @Twinkie

        Your shaming language is truly unhelpful
         
        She’s the first to lose it when someone uses “shaming language” against “degenerate” women. That’s why - despite her occasionally good observations - she gets no love here. No one likes a hypocrite.
      50. So this poll shows that people who are not white, not black, and not hispanic are the most numerate. Goes to show that white men don’t have the highest degree of numeracy.

        • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
        Who here has ever claimed Asians aren't good at math?!
      51. @216
        The comment is actually useful, because it encourages the idea of a "male wall" at 30, which the manosphere is usually hostile towards. They often infer that a man's value increases until 35 or so, and faces a gradual decline vis a vis the "wall" that women hit around 30, with a total drop off around 40.

        The options are not good for many average beta males, and a lot of this has to do with their own behavior (thirst, obesity, pron). But it also has to do with (mass immigration driving down wages, spiking housing prices, affirmative action) structural factors that have reduced the aggregate value of men and forces a dual-earner household that precludes a "traditional" arrangement.

        And this is not to forget that around half of all marriages end in divorce, even in a society where cohabitation and birth out of wedlock is not stigmatized as it was even 20 years ago.

        Your shaming language is truly unhelpful, you are intruding on a male space rather than face the difficult task of using shaming language against the university-indoctrinated feminist women that inhabit the younger generations.

        Your shaming language is truly unhelpful, you are intruding on a male space

        I will bug off the manosphere just as soon as the manosphere gets the fuck out of White advocacy.

        rather than face the difficult task of using shaming language against the university-indoctrinated feminist women that inhabit the younger generations.

        I take it that you recognize the merit in my critique of the degenerate manosphere, which, you refuse to admit, is just the mirror image of the feminism you all claim to hate.

        Your “solution” to feminism is to go and act like precisely the douchebags feminists have always said you are.

        You see 216, I’m not really interested in the gender wars. I’m interested in White well-being. If that is your chief concern, I’m not interested in fighting your battles for you.

        • Replies: @Anon
        The manosphere is merely an imperfect and reactionary counter-movement against feminism and anti-male laws. It has no staying power absent temporary feminism. Don't worry about its supporters for the long-term. They're merely a phenomenon of the times, and not in any way a permanent part of society once feminism is erased. In the meantime, don't underestimate the wide destruction of feminism and its individual effects (divorce rape, etc) that have spawned the individuals who drive the temporary movement.

        You can rail against them, but its like shouting at a storm. There's nothing to be done. Its best to ignore them and allow historical forces even them out. Which they will.
        , @iffen
        I’m interested in White well-being.

        I keep forgetting to ask you, Rosie, given your concern for the supposed genocide and passing of the great white race, how many little smiling white faces are you contributing to the cause? My two white grandmothers turned out twenty between them that reached adulthood and had families of their own. I have six white grandchildren. What about you? May I put you down for at least ten children?
      52. Anon[314] • Disclaimer says:
        @Rosie

        Your shaming language is truly unhelpful, you are intruding on a male space
         
        I will bug off the manosphere just as soon as the manosphere gets the fuck out of White advocacy.

        rather than face the difficult task of using shaming language against the university-indoctrinated feminist women that inhabit the younger generations.
         
        I take it that you recognize the merit in my critique of the degenerate manosphere, which, you refuse to admit, is just the mirror image of the feminism you all claim to hate.

        Your "solution" to feminism is to go and act like precisely the douchebags feminists have always said you are.

        You see 216, I'm not really interested in the gender wars. I'm interested in White well-being. If that is your chief concern, I'm not interested in fighting your battles for you.

        The manosphere is merely an imperfect and reactionary counter-movement against feminism and anti-male laws. It has no staying power absent temporary feminism. Don’t worry about its supporters for the long-term. They’re merely a phenomenon of the times, and not in any way a permanent part of society once feminism is erased. In the meantime, don’t underestimate the wide destruction of feminism and its individual effects (divorce rape, etc) that have spawned the individuals who drive the temporary movement.

        You can rail against them, but its like shouting at a storm. There’s nothing to be done. Its best to ignore them and allow historical forces even them out. Which they will.

        • Replies: @Rosie

        In the meantime, don’t underestimate the wide destruction of feminism and its individual effects (divorce rape, etc) that have spawned the individuals who drive the temporary movement.
         
        What do you think can/should be done about "divorce rape"?
      53. @Rosie

        theres no female peer waiting to be your devoted true love. shes already loved and lost or was never capable of loving in the first place and in the “best case” scenario where she agrees to marry youll only ever be her husband accessory and sperm donor. youll never matter more to her than her granite countertops or exposed brick or shoe collection.
         
        The degeneracy of the manosphere in a nutshell. Just listen to this pathetic, whiny manchild. One wonders what a woman would have to do or say to make him feel like he "matters" to her.

        Of course, what he says here is wrong. The countertops and shoe collection aren't what matters, but he is right that it's not about him. As soon as children come along, it's about them. This self-absorbed degenerate has no concept of the meaning of marriage, that joy in a marriage comes precisely from setting the self aside and raising children together.

        He really has no business getting married.

        Trololo

        • Replies: @Talha
        Is that a literary reference? From a book about Brooklyn?

        Peace.
      54. @Rosie

        Your shaming language is truly unhelpful, you are intruding on a male space
         
        I will bug off the manosphere just as soon as the manosphere gets the fuck out of White advocacy.

        rather than face the difficult task of using shaming language against the university-indoctrinated feminist women that inhabit the younger generations.
         
        I take it that you recognize the merit in my critique of the degenerate manosphere, which, you refuse to admit, is just the mirror image of the feminism you all claim to hate.

        Your "solution" to feminism is to go and act like precisely the douchebags feminists have always said you are.

        You see 216, I'm not really interested in the gender wars. I'm interested in White well-being. If that is your chief concern, I'm not interested in fighting your battles for you.

        I’m interested in White well-being.

        I keep forgetting to ask you, Rosie, given your concern for the supposed genocide and passing of the great white race, how many little smiling white faces are you contributing to the cause? My two white grandmothers turned out twenty between them that reached adulthood and had families of their own. I have six white grandchildren. What about you? May I put you down for at least ten children?

        • Replies: @Rosie

        What about you? May I put you down for at least ten children?
         
        Six. Not that it matters. Whites are entitled to object to their own destruction regardless of how many children they have.
      55. @216
        The comment is actually useful, because it encourages the idea of a "male wall" at 30, which the manosphere is usually hostile towards. They often infer that a man's value increases until 35 or so, and faces a gradual decline vis a vis the "wall" that women hit around 30, with a total drop off around 40.

        The options are not good for many average beta males, and a lot of this has to do with their own behavior (thirst, obesity, pron). But it also has to do with (mass immigration driving down wages, spiking housing prices, affirmative action) structural factors that have reduced the aggregate value of men and forces a dual-earner household that precludes a "traditional" arrangement.

        And this is not to forget that around half of all marriages end in divorce, even in a society where cohabitation and birth out of wedlock is not stigmatized as it was even 20 years ago.

        Your shaming language is truly unhelpful, you are intruding on a male space rather than face the difficult task of using shaming language against the university-indoctrinated feminist women that inhabit the younger generations.

        On the contrary, her shaming language is helpful. It reminds me how utterly full of shit feminists/nice guy so cons are, and of the puerile quality of female argumentation generally. Focuses the mind, as it were.

        Post really had little to do with a male wall, as much as you for some reason would love that. It’s more that there’s a general social wall, and it’s probably at 25 or younger.

        • Replies: @216

        as much as you for some reason would love that.
         
        While men can father children later in life than women, sperm count and quality does decline with age. Applying social pressure to men to marry before 30, or even 25; would probably result in better pairings and less birth defects.

        Age gaps are also particularly anathema to the Western European Marriage Pattern, which I cherish as one of the factors that brought our civilization to dominance.

        On the contrary, her shaming language is helpful. It reminds me how utterly full of shit feminists/nice guy so cons are,
         
        No it isn't. The Unz site is a sausage fest, and any productive female commenter should be welcomed. Shaming language is not only unhelpful because it intrudes upon a male space, and creates unnecessary conflict. It's also unhelpful because shaming is most effective female-to-female. Dissident politics will, whether we like it or not, acquire a female wing, and it is vital that the gender chasm is bridged.
      56. 216 says: • Website

        I take it that you recognize the merit in my critique of the degenerate manosphere, which, you refuse to admit, is just the mirror image of the feminism you all claim to hate.

        Don’t you think this is a very simplistic take?

        I’m not begrudging that you find “male spaces” uncomfortable, I don’t tend to comment or even visit predominantly female communties.

        The manosphere is a broad spectrum of various communties of interest, that dissent from the mainstream views on gender dynamics (best example would be found in The Atlantic)

        Feminism is also something of a broad spectrum, but in contrast to the manosphere it is intensely political. So-called men’s rights groups are politically inert compared to feminist titans (many of which were originally funded by the CIA). Afiak, no prominent billionaire is publicly known as a supporter of the manosphere, plenty support feminism.

        Your “solution” to feminism is to go and act like precisely the douchebags feminists have always said you are.

        This is a strawman, the solutions I have suggested include:
        -Men should stop being thirsty, stop using pron
        -Men should lose weight
        -Men should wait until marriage, to remove female bargaining power
        -Men should consider joining counter-cultural religious communities
        -Men shouldn’t use dating apps, should consider asking community elders to pair them off
        -Men should take an honest look at their market value, and be content with being single
        -Nihilism is bad

        These views are antithetical to what TRP is about, and mildly congruent with MGTOW (excepting their excess nihilism). Unlike MRA, I see political activism as mostly useless, divorce laws won’t be changed unless women/gays start being disfavored by them. But on balance, most manosphere types would slur me as a “tradcon”.

        The manosphere also tends to promote this idea of “aspirational alpha”, which I think is silly. Most men are betas and lifestyle advice should be presented accordingly. This is one of the few things that incel gets right, but they are overwhelmingly nihilistic.

        You see 216, I’m not really interested in the gender wars. I’m interested in White well-being. If that is your chief concern, I’m not interested in fighting your battles for you.

        The dissident movements need to develop a countersectional mindset.

        • Replies: @Rosie

        I’m not begrudging that you find “male spaces” uncomfortable, I don’t tend to comment or even visit predominantly female communties.
         
        As I have said elsewhere, I find "male spaces" perfectly comfortable. This is a misogynist space. There's a difference.

        So-called men’s rights groups are politically inert compared to feminist titans (many of which were originally funded by the CIA). Afiak, no prominent billionaire is publicly known as a supporter of the manosphere, plenty support feminism.
         
        So what? That doesn't mean it can't poison the pro-White well.

        Feminism is also something of a broad spectrum,
         
        Indeed, and if you are going to ask me to take a stand against "feminism," then you're going to have to be clear about what you mean by it.

        This is a strawman, the solutions I have suggested include:
         
        I wasn't talking about you personally, but rather you collectively, as in DR men.


        Men should wait until marriage, to remove female bargaining power
         
        So you do hate women. If you don't, I can't see why you wouldn't want women to have any bargaining power.

        The dissident movements need to develop a countersectional mindset.
         
        Absurd. You can't be pro-White and anti-woman at the same time, nor can you be pro-White and anti- Male. You wouldn't tolerate radical feminists coming on this site and badmouthing White men to the point of discouraging White women to marry them, would you?
      57. @Talha
        Also off-topic, though it might be shoe-horned under "media failing spectacularly"...the Chinese state is horrible at propaganda. I know men like Godfree Roberts seem to have some kind of a religious attachment to it, but it's when simple stuff comes out like this that the entire edifice of his arguments come crashing down:
        https://twitter.com/arslan_hidayat/status/1163577393442934789

        "Say you are free, comrade! Say the words."

        I'll post this on the next article about Uyghurs and see if it can drive the "Wu Mao" army to go ape.

        Peace.

        Agree that the Chinese are incompetent at combating Western propaganda.

        They should just expel all Jews and Muslims from their country, period.

        • Replies: @Talha
        To combat propaganda that Muslims are in detention camps, the Chinese government should expel them from the country in toto - brilliant!!! That would definitely stop the finger pointing about Muslims in camps fairly fast!

        Peace.
      58. 216 says: • Website
        @L Woods
        On the contrary, her shaming language is helpful. It reminds me how utterly full of shit feminists/nice guy so cons are, and of the puerile quality of female argumentation generally. Focuses the mind, as it were.

        Post really had little to do with a male wall, as much as you for some reason would love that. It’s more that there’s a general social wall, and it’s probably at 25 or younger.

        as much as you for some reason would love that.

        While men can father children later in life than women, sperm count and quality does decline with age. Applying social pressure to men to marry before 30, or even 25; would probably result in better pairings and less birth defects.

        Age gaps are also particularly anathema to the Western European Marriage Pattern, which I cherish as one of the factors that brought our civilization to dominance.

        On the contrary, her shaming language is helpful. It reminds me how utterly full of shit feminists/nice guy so cons are,

        No it isn’t. The Unz site is a sausage fest, and any productive female commenter should be welcomed. Shaming language is not only unhelpful because it intrudes upon a male space, and creates unnecessary conflict. It’s also unhelpful because shaming is most effective female-to-female. Dissident politics will, whether we like it or not, acquire a female wing, and it is vital that the gender chasm is bridged.

        • Replies: @iffen
        it is vital that the gender chasm is bridged.

        Historically that chasm has been filled by older men obtaining younger women. If you want to overturn this, I suggest that you start with the current Prez and all the others with trophy wives.
        , @L Woods

        While men can father children later in life than women, sperm count and quality does decline with age. Applying social pressure to men to marry before 30, or even 25; would probably result in better pairings and less birth defects.

        Age gaps are also particularly anathema to the Western European Marriage Pattern, which I cherish as one of the factors that brought our civilization to dominance.
         
        An academic notion (even if true), rendered irrelevant by the present 'facts on the ground.' 22 year old women don't want to marry 22 year old betas; 22 year old women want whore around until or even well past their expiration date. Unfortunately of course, in our wonderful society, they are permitted to do this. I for one will be damned if I'll fall on my sword for the sake of someone's idea of the historical "Western European Marriage Pattern," let alone for a society that spits on me and hates me.

        Dissident politics will, whether we like it or not, acquire a female wing, and it is vital that the gender chasm is bridged.
         
        Dissident politics are doomed, but regardless, women will flock to the powerful and reject the powerless regardless of whatever policy or philosophy may state about their proper role in things. Even if not, a 'new order' that includes feminism isn't worth striving for -- better to let mass immigration et al finish the job.
      59. @216

        as much as you for some reason would love that.
         
        While men can father children later in life than women, sperm count and quality does decline with age. Applying social pressure to men to marry before 30, or even 25; would probably result in better pairings and less birth defects.

        Age gaps are also particularly anathema to the Western European Marriage Pattern, which I cherish as one of the factors that brought our civilization to dominance.

        On the contrary, her shaming language is helpful. It reminds me how utterly full of shit feminists/nice guy so cons are,
         
        No it isn't. The Unz site is a sausage fest, and any productive female commenter should be welcomed. Shaming language is not only unhelpful because it intrudes upon a male space, and creates unnecessary conflict. It's also unhelpful because shaming is most effective female-to-female. Dissident politics will, whether we like it or not, acquire a female wing, and it is vital that the gender chasm is bridged.

        it is vital that the gender chasm is bridged.

        Historically that chasm has been filled by older men obtaining younger women. If you want to overturn this, I suggest that you start with the current Prez and all the others with trophy wives.

        • LOL: Twinkie, 216
        • Replies: @216
        ?

        Not sure I follow, I was talking about voting patterns?

        "White college" women in the Western world tend to massively disfavor nationalist politicians. While by contrast the highest support comes from "non-college white men".

        Any typical pairing here is a sugar daddy.
      60. @iffen
        it is vital that the gender chasm is bridged.

        Historically that chasm has been filled by older men obtaining younger women. If you want to overturn this, I suggest that you start with the current Prez and all the others with trophy wives.

        ?

        Not sure I follow, I was talking about voting patterns?

        “White college” women in the Western world tend to massively disfavor nationalist politicians. While by contrast the highest support comes from “non-college white men”.

        Any typical pairing here is a sugar daddy.

        • Replies: @iffen
        My bad, I was distracted by this sentence and didn't fold it into voting patterns.

        Age gaps are also particularly anathema to the Western European Marriage Pattern, which I cherish as one of the factors that brought our civilization to dominance.
      61. @Rosie

        theres no female peer waiting to be your devoted true love. shes already loved and lost or was never capable of loving in the first place and in the “best case” scenario where she agrees to marry youll only ever be her husband accessory and sperm donor. youll never matter more to her than her granite countertops or exposed brick or shoe collection.
         
        The degeneracy of the manosphere in a nutshell. Just listen to this pathetic, whiny manchild. One wonders what a woman would have to do or say to make him feel like he "matters" to her.

        Of course, what he says here is wrong. The countertops and shoe collection aren't what matters, but he is right that it's not about him. As soon as children come along, it's about them. This self-absorbed degenerate has no concept of the meaning of marriage, that joy in a marriage comes precisely from setting the self aside and raising children together.

        He really has no business getting married.

        Gee, Rosie, did the manosphere guy touch a nerve in you? Get a little close to describing you? Protest much? I’ve been around a million couples where the woman acts JUST as described. Used to do sound and TVs and phones for the wealthy sorts around DC and I can tell you the women in that ‘price range’ got cuntier and cuntier every year that went by. And per the stats, half the women would cash out with an “I’m not haaaaaapy” divorce. The other half continued to make their husbands miserable. Because with broads, ask how much is enough and the answer is only, and always, “MORE!!! NOW!!!!”. Those are the facts, Sweetheart. It’s how women operate.

        • LOL: L Woods
      62. @iffen
        I’m interested in White well-being.

        I keep forgetting to ask you, Rosie, given your concern for the supposed genocide and passing of the great white race, how many little smiling white faces are you contributing to the cause? My two white grandmothers turned out twenty between them that reached adulthood and had families of their own. I have six white grandchildren. What about you? May I put you down for at least ten children?

        What about you? May I put you down for at least ten children?

        Six. Not that it matters. Whites are entitled to object to their own destruction regardless of how many children they have.

        • Replies: @iffen
        Six.

        Well, you are doing your part. I think that you are ahead of Twinkie. If I remember correctly, he says that he has more than a minivan full, so if we make that 8, he would be contributing 8 halves which works out to only 4 wholes and so you are doing more than he is in the perpetuation game.
      63. @216

        as much as you for some reason would love that.
         
        While men can father children later in life than women, sperm count and quality does decline with age. Applying social pressure to men to marry before 30, or even 25; would probably result in better pairings and less birth defects.

        Age gaps are also particularly anathema to the Western European Marriage Pattern, which I cherish as one of the factors that brought our civilization to dominance.

        On the contrary, her shaming language is helpful. It reminds me how utterly full of shit feminists/nice guy so cons are,
         
        No it isn't. The Unz site is a sausage fest, and any productive female commenter should be welcomed. Shaming language is not only unhelpful because it intrudes upon a male space, and creates unnecessary conflict. It's also unhelpful because shaming is most effective female-to-female. Dissident politics will, whether we like it or not, acquire a female wing, and it is vital that the gender chasm is bridged.

        While men can father children later in life than women, sperm count and quality does decline with age. Applying social pressure to men to marry before 30, or even 25; would probably result in better pairings and less birth defects.

        Age gaps are also particularly anathema to the Western European Marriage Pattern, which I cherish as one of the factors that brought our civilization to dominance.

        An academic notion (even if true), rendered irrelevant by the present ‘facts on the ground.’ 22 year old women don’t want to marry 22 year old betas; 22 year old women want whore around until or even well past their expiration date. Unfortunately of course, in our wonderful society, they are permitted to do this. I for one will be damned if I’ll fall on my sword for the sake of someone’s idea of the historical “Western European Marriage Pattern,” let alone for a society that spits on me and hates me.

        Dissident politics will, whether we like it or not, acquire a female wing, and it is vital that the gender chasm is bridged.

        Dissident politics are doomed, but regardless, women will flock to the powerful and reject the powerless regardless of whatever policy or philosophy may state about their proper role in things. Even if not, a ‘new order’ that includes feminism isn’t worth striving for — better to let mass immigration et al finish the job.

        • Replies: @Rosie

        Even if not, a ‘new order’ that includes feminism isn’t worth striving for — better to let mass immigration et al finish the job.
         
        The race traitor shows himself again.
        , @Jim Christian
        Concur. When I joined up with Naval Air in the mid-seventies the notion of Mom, Apple Pie and Chevrolet was worth defending, I guess.

        In that statement is the differences with yesteryear. Today, Mom is a divorced slut, Apple Pie is a turd in a wax paper wrapper and Chevrolet is a bent shit-can from China. Not much left to defend except for the job.
        , @dfordoom

        Even if not, a ‘new order’ that includes feminism isn’t worth striving for — better to let mass immigration et al finish the job.
         
        A bleak thought but substantially correct I think. There is no point in trying to save a "white race" that is totally pozzed and feminised and degenerate. Islam would be a much better option than that.
      64. @216

        I take it that you recognize the merit in my critique of the degenerate manosphere, which, you refuse to admit, is just the mirror image of the feminism you all claim to hate.
         
        Don't you think this is a very simplistic take?

        I'm not begrudging that you find "male spaces" uncomfortable, I don't tend to comment or even visit predominantly female communties.

        The manosphere is a broad spectrum of various communties of interest, that dissent from the mainstream views on gender dynamics (best example would be found in The Atlantic)

        Feminism is also something of a broad spectrum, but in contrast to the manosphere it is intensely political. So-called men's rights groups are politically inert compared to feminist titans (many of which were originally funded by the CIA). Afiak, no prominent billionaire is publicly known as a supporter of the manosphere, plenty support feminism.

        Your “solution” to feminism is to go and act like precisely the douchebags feminists have always said you are.
         
        This is a strawman, the solutions I have suggested include:
        -Men should stop being thirsty, stop using pron
        -Men should lose weight
        -Men should wait until marriage, to remove female bargaining power
        -Men should consider joining counter-cultural religious communities
        -Men shouldn't use dating apps, should consider asking community elders to pair them off
        -Men should take an honest look at their market value, and be content with being single
        -Nihilism is bad

        These views are antithetical to what TRP is about, and mildly congruent with MGTOW (excepting their excess nihilism). Unlike MRA, I see political activism as mostly useless, divorce laws won't be changed unless women/gays start being disfavored by them. But on balance, most manosphere types would slur me as a "tradcon".

        The manosphere also tends to promote this idea of "aspirational alpha", which I think is silly. Most men are betas and lifestyle advice should be presented accordingly. This is one of the few things that incel gets right, but they are overwhelmingly nihilistic.

        You see 216, I’m not really interested in the gender wars. I’m interested in White well-being. If that is your chief concern, I’m not interested in fighting your battles for you.
         
        The dissident movements need to develop a countersectional mindset.

        I’m not begrudging that you find “male spaces” uncomfortable, I don’t tend to comment or even visit predominantly female communties.

        As I have said elsewhere, I find “male spaces” perfectly comfortable. This is a misogynist space. There’s a difference.

        So-called men’s rights groups are politically inert compared to feminist titans (many of which were originally funded by the CIA). Afiak, no prominent billionaire is publicly known as a supporter of the manosphere, plenty support feminism.

        So what? That doesn’t mean it can’t poison the pro-White well.

        Feminism is also something of a broad spectrum,

        Indeed, and if you are going to ask me to take a stand against “feminism,” then you’re going to have to be clear about what you mean by it.

        This is a strawman, the solutions I have suggested include:

        I wasn’t talking about you personally, but rather you collectively, as in DR men.

        Men should wait until marriage, to remove female bargaining power

        So you do hate women. If you don’t, I can’t see why you wouldn’t want women to have any bargaining power.

        The dissident movements need to develop a countersectional mindset.

        Absurd. You can’t be pro-White and anti-woman at the same time, nor can you be pro-White and anti- Male. You wouldn’t tolerate radical feminists coming on this site and badmouthing White men to the point of discouraging White women to marry them, would you?

        • Replies: @216

        As I have said elsewhere, I find “male spaces” perfectly comfortable. This is a misogynist space. There’s a difference.
         
        I'm sorry that you feel that way. Undoubtedly these communities do tend to attract those with a chip on their shoulder.

        So what? That doesn’t mean it can’t poison the pro-White well.
         
        What are some ways that you think a white identity politics can be palatable to the university-educated young woman?

        So you do hate women. If you don’t, I can’t see why you wouldn’t want women to have any bargaining power.
         
        Again, my apologies. Reimagine this stance as replacing "remove" with "re-balance" or "reduce".

        You wouldn’t tolerate radical feminists coming on this site and badmouthing White men to the point of discouraging White women to marry them, would you?
         
        This is not my site, it's Ron's and he sublets it to AE, Steve and Karlin. If he wants to add a radical feminist or TERF blogger, maybe it would be interesting. I would welcome radical feminists to read this site and comment. They might learn a few things, and might even meet a husband.
      65. @L Woods
        Trololo

        Is that a literary reference? From a book about Brooklyn?

        Peace.

      66. @L Woods

        While men can father children later in life than women, sperm count and quality does decline with age. Applying social pressure to men to marry before 30, or even 25; would probably result in better pairings and less birth defects.

        Age gaps are also particularly anathema to the Western European Marriage Pattern, which I cherish as one of the factors that brought our civilization to dominance.
         
        An academic notion (even if true), rendered irrelevant by the present 'facts on the ground.' 22 year old women don't want to marry 22 year old betas; 22 year old women want whore around until or even well past their expiration date. Unfortunately of course, in our wonderful society, they are permitted to do this. I for one will be damned if I'll fall on my sword for the sake of someone's idea of the historical "Western European Marriage Pattern," let alone for a society that spits on me and hates me.

        Dissident politics will, whether we like it or not, acquire a female wing, and it is vital that the gender chasm is bridged.
         
        Dissident politics are doomed, but regardless, women will flock to the powerful and reject the powerless regardless of whatever policy or philosophy may state about their proper role in things. Even if not, a 'new order' that includes feminism isn't worth striving for -- better to let mass immigration et al finish the job.

        Even if not, a ‘new order’ that includes feminism isn’t worth striving for — better to let mass immigration et al finish the job.

        The race traitor shows himself again.

        • Replies: @Twinkie

        race traitor
         
        This is not Storm Front.
        , @L Woods
        I thought I was a Jew. Apparently not only can Jews shapeshift between white and non-white at whim, but others can transmute them as well. Who knew?
      67. @Rosie

        What about you? May I put you down for at least ten children?
         
        Six. Not that it matters. Whites are entitled to object to their own destruction regardless of how many children they have.

        Six.

        Well, you are doing your part. I think that you are ahead of Twinkie. If I remember correctly, he says that he has more than a minivan full, so if we make that 8, he would be contributing 8 halves which works out to only 4 wholes and so you are doing more than he is in the perpetuation game.

        • Replies: @Twinkie

        halves
         
        Yes, but...

        1. My halves are growing up under a psychologically healthy white mother who doesn’t spend all her time in “the misogynistic space” online.

        2. If my halves marry whites and have Catholic numbers of children, I will win the race over several generations due to both assimilation and “compounding interest.”

        3. I don’t like to not take people at their words, but I doubt Rosie has six kids. I know moms with four kids and up and none - I mean none - has time to spend arguing with strangers on the net (now the husbands...).

        4. My kids care about America.
      68. @216
        ?

        Not sure I follow, I was talking about voting patterns?

        "White college" women in the Western world tend to massively disfavor nationalist politicians. While by contrast the highest support comes from "non-college white men".

        Any typical pairing here is a sugar daddy.

        My bad, I was distracted by this sentence and didn’t fold it into voting patterns.

        Age gaps are also particularly anathema to the Western European Marriage Pattern, which I cherish as one of the factors that brought our civilization to dominance.

      69. @iffen
        Six.

        Well, you are doing your part. I think that you are ahead of Twinkie. If I remember correctly, he says that he has more than a minivan full, so if we make that 8, he would be contributing 8 halves which works out to only 4 wholes and so you are doing more than he is in the perpetuation game.

        halves

        Yes, but…

        1. My halves are growing up under a psychologically healthy white mother who doesn’t spend all her time in “the misogynistic space” online.

        2. If my halves marry whites and have Catholic numbers of children, I will win the race over several generations due to both assimilation and “compounding interest.”

        3. I don’t like to not take people at their words, but I doubt Rosie has six kids. I know moms with four kids and up and none – I mean none – has time to spend arguing with strangers on the net (now the husbands…).

        4. My kids care about America.

        • Replies: @iffen
        If my halves marry whites and have Catholic numbers of children, I will win the race

        I didn't think about carrying it out further. You are right; you will likely "win".
        , @216

        I don’t like to not take people at their words, but I doubt Rosie has six kids. I know moms with four kids and up and none – I mean none – has time to spend arguing with strangers on the net (now the husbands…).
         
        Now, no one knows you are a dog on the Internet.

        That said, I have never doubted that Rosie is a woman.

        I have accused UrbaneFrancoOntarian of being an RCMP agent. I stand by that accusation.

        Mastering the female voice is hard for a man to do. Afaik, Rosie has never discussed her husband or children, which is rather unusual for a wife, but she has a rather dominant personality and may not need to live vicariously as a lot of woman are wont to do. Some of her children may be grown adults, as IIRC she mentioned being married at a younger age.
      70. @Rosie

        Even if not, a ‘new order’ that includes feminism isn’t worth striving for — better to let mass immigration et al finish the job.
         
        The race traitor shows himself again.

        race traitor

        This is not Storm Front.

      71. @216
        I'll have you know that we will be using top-of-the-line Daimler-Benz, Siemens and IG Farben robotics.

        top-of-the-line Daimler-Benz, Siemens and IG Farben robotics.

        Built by Turks and about as reliable?

      72. @Twinkie

        halves
         
        Yes, but...

        1. My halves are growing up under a psychologically healthy white mother who doesn’t spend all her time in “the misogynistic space” online.

        2. If my halves marry whites and have Catholic numbers of children, I will win the race over several generations due to both assimilation and “compounding interest.”

        3. I don’t like to not take people at their words, but I doubt Rosie has six kids. I know moms with four kids and up and none - I mean none - has time to spend arguing with strangers on the net (now the husbands...).

        4. My kids care about America.

        If my halves marry whites and have Catholic numbers of children, I will win the race

        I didn’t think about carrying it out further. You are right; you will likely “win”.

        • Replies: @Twinkie
        As AE often writes, future belongs to those who have... many descendants.
      73. @Rosie

        I’m not begrudging that you find “male spaces” uncomfortable, I don’t tend to comment or even visit predominantly female communties.
         
        As I have said elsewhere, I find "male spaces" perfectly comfortable. This is a misogynist space. There's a difference.

        So-called men’s rights groups are politically inert compared to feminist titans (many of which were originally funded by the CIA). Afiak, no prominent billionaire is publicly known as a supporter of the manosphere, plenty support feminism.
         
        So what? That doesn't mean it can't poison the pro-White well.

        Feminism is also something of a broad spectrum,
         
        Indeed, and if you are going to ask me to take a stand against "feminism," then you're going to have to be clear about what you mean by it.

        This is a strawman, the solutions I have suggested include:
         
        I wasn't talking about you personally, but rather you collectively, as in DR men.


        Men should wait until marriage, to remove female bargaining power
         
        So you do hate women. If you don't, I can't see why you wouldn't want women to have any bargaining power.

        The dissident movements need to develop a countersectional mindset.
         
        Absurd. You can't be pro-White and anti-woman at the same time, nor can you be pro-White and anti- Male. You wouldn't tolerate radical feminists coming on this site and badmouthing White men to the point of discouraging White women to marry them, would you?

        As I have said elsewhere, I find “male spaces” perfectly comfortable. This is a misogynist space. There’s a difference.

        I’m sorry that you feel that way. Undoubtedly these communities do tend to attract those with a chip on their shoulder.

        So what? That doesn’t mean it can’t poison the pro-White well.

        What are some ways that you think a white identity politics can be palatable to the university-educated young woman?

        So you do hate women. If you don’t, I can’t see why you wouldn’t want women to have any bargaining power.

        Again, my apologies. Reimagine this stance as replacing “remove” with “re-balance” or “reduce”.

        You wouldn’t tolerate radical feminists coming on this site and badmouthing White men to the point of discouraging White women to marry them, would you?

        This is not my site, it’s Ron’s and he sublets it to AE, Steve and Karlin. If he wants to add a radical feminist or TERF blogger, maybe it would be interesting. I would welcome radical feminists to read this site and comment. They might learn a few things, and might even meet a husband.

        • Replies: @Rosie

        What are some ways that you think a white identity politics can be palatable to the university-educated young woman?
         
        I don't know that it can, at least not until the brainwashing wears off, but that's beside the point. The way women are spoken of here is offensive not only to them, but to all women, and many men who cherish their wives, sisters, mothers, and daughters. Sometimes it is necessary to say offensive things, for example, when men are being accused of conspiring to exclude women from STEM careers, they are entitled to defend themselves by recourse to any facts, flattering or not.

        Again, my apologies. Reimagine this stance as replacing “remove” with “re-balance” or “reduce”.
         
        OK. I acknowledge the clarification, though I absolutely reject your premise that women have excessive bargaining power, for which I have seen no evidence here or elsewhere.

        Some of her children may be grown adults, as IIRC she mentioned being married at a younger age.
         
        Not quite grown, but not little either. In any event, it's true that I would rather be doing other things than having these arguments on the Internet, but I feel it is absolutely necessary. And yes, I married young.
      74. @Twinkie

        halves
         
        Yes, but...

        1. My halves are growing up under a psychologically healthy white mother who doesn’t spend all her time in “the misogynistic space” online.

        2. If my halves marry whites and have Catholic numbers of children, I will win the race over several generations due to both assimilation and “compounding interest.”

        3. I don’t like to not take people at their words, but I doubt Rosie has six kids. I know moms with four kids and up and none - I mean none - has time to spend arguing with strangers on the net (now the husbands...).

        4. My kids care about America.

        I don’t like to not take people at their words, but I doubt Rosie has six kids. I know moms with four kids and up and none – I mean none – has time to spend arguing with strangers on the net (now the husbands…).

        Now, no one knows you are a dog on the Internet.

        That said, I have never doubted that Rosie is a woman.

        I have accused UrbaneFrancoOntarian of being an RCMP agent. I stand by that accusation.

        Mastering the female voice is hard for a man to do. Afaik, Rosie has never discussed her husband or children, which is rather unusual for a wife, but she has a rather dominant personality and may not need to live vicariously as a lot of woman are wont to do. Some of her children may be grown adults, as IIRC she mentioned being married at a younger age.

        • Replies: @Twinkie

        That said, I have never doubted that Rosie is a woman.
         
        She has to be a woman. Her selective use of logic and evidence, which is intended to win arguments rather than get at the truth, is pretty stereotypically feminine trait.

        I just don’t think she has six children, given how much time she spends here. And I don’t think it’s because her husband helps out a lot either. She complained of having to negotiate with him on everything.

        dominant personality
         
        I don’t equate petulance with dominance. She is much too whiney to be a dominant personality. I know truly dominant women - they have a bulldozer-like personality and get their way, everything else be darned.

        Some of her children may be grown adults
         
        She also wrote of taking care of small children and her vocabulary is not that of older women.
      75. Anon[357] • Disclaimer says:

        Can you blame them, though? Guys like Trevor Noah and his cadre of liars at Comedy Central (and network television) spend every night brainwashing their gullible young audience into believing caravans and the such are no big deal. Stewart did the same thing for years: “There is no War On Christmas”; meanwhile, cities across the country end Christmas parades because they aren’t inclusive enough. We let masses of foreigners in, like Noah, and now they are remaking the country to their short-term benefit. That was always going to be the outcome of diversity. How could anyone think otherwise? Brainwashing works, and this proves it. Just another example of how the GOP screwed the pooch by letting their ideological enemies monopolize information distribution nodes.

        “I shudder to think of what happens when the GOP is destroyed nationally as it was in California. When millions wake up to demographic oblivion…well you see why the corporate media has a tendency to downplay what is going on … Argentina is about to re-elect Kirchner’s party, which means more economic illiteracy…”

        Things are going to get very bad, that’s for sure; although, once the GOP is destroyed, we may get a brief Era of Good Feelings just before TSHTF. From my point of view, I’ve long suspected Venezuela and Argentina will turn out to be examples of America’s impending future. With the GOP destroyed nationally thanks to demographic change (ironically supported by party leadership), there will be no restraining mechanism on the incompetent, increasingly POC, masses. Envious, they will demand equal outcomes in everything – income, jobs, movie representation, crime stats, home ownership, college admissions. What they cannot create on their own they will seize from the despised white plurality and there will be no one to stop them because republicans can’t win national elections; all federal judges appointed after Trump will be democrats; all presidents will be democrats; congress will be controlled by democrats; the media will all be located in democrat-voting strong-holds; the military and police forces will be heavily pozzed; guns will be banned; “hate speech” will be prohibited; censorship will be rampant.

        That means wealth, achievement, and cultural transfers from productive whites to POC. Hence, the current talk of reparations; hence, the continual race swapping of white movie characters created by white males with POC; hence, the conspiracy theories of “white supremacy” and “institutional racism”, etc. It’s all a racket to legitimize taking from one racial group and giving the bounty to their own. The end result will be continual economic and societal ruin** – a housing crisis, a debt crisis, a crime rate crisis, a military competency crisis, a corporate competitiveness crisis, a corruption crisis, a homelessness crisis, a fuel price crisis, a college academic crisis, an entertainment industry crisis, an institutional faith crisis, a diplomatic crisis, etc etc etc.

        This kind of naked racial theft helped cause the Housing Crisis of 2008 (see Sailer’s Minority Mortgage Meltdown: https://www.unz.com/isteve/2002-bushs-speech-to-white-house/), and it will only get worse in the future. Imagine an economic crisis every decade due to government mismanagement of the economy. It could happen. It did happen in Venezuela where the masses rose up and threw off the whitish upper-class and elected socialist Hugo Chavez. Millions then fled, just as we saw earlier with Zimbabwe and South Africa once their systems deteriorated. Under Obama, the US reached record high levels of citizenship renouncements and subsequent emigration, but I suspect that’s just a taste of what’s to come in the future.

        Even without US sanctions, which I admit have greatly worsened things, the situation in Venezuela would be worse than it was before the Chavez/Maduro gang came to power. How ironic would it be if the US overthrew Maduro only to elect his ideological soulmate in 20 years time? Just look at the current crop running for the democratic nomination and tell me that’s not a possibility.* I wouldn’t be surprised if the permanent democrat state started stealing white people’s homes using eminent domain / reparations logic in a few decades. There is already the precedent from South Africa and Zimbabwe.

        Do you imagine the US dollar remaining the global reserve currency like that? I don’t. Expect a marked decline in per capita purchasing power over the next 20 years. Americans are all ready having to take out loans to maintain the standard of living their parents had; wage growth is stagnant; most jobs created are low-wage; tens of millions of irreplaceable Boomers are about to retire and leave behind a less numerous generation of whites with fewer income-generating opportunities while other net tax-consuming demographics (blacks consume ~1/3rd trillion dollars more than they make annually) grow or remain stable; long-term federal government liabilities are soaring; nearly every state pension program is underfunded. I can only imagine what a reduced economic and geopolitical status will do to the United States on top of that. Dark times ahead.

        PS. Israel is also doomed in the long-term. The Squad is now targeting them, too. One of them recently called for a boycott of Bill Maher’s program because he criticized them, something white males are no longer allowed to do. The one bit of solace I get from this situation is knowing that pro-Israel guys like Chuck Schumer, guys who thought they could trick gullible Lindsey Graham types into killing themselves with immigration, have also killed Israel in the process. They’ll go to their graves knowing this. They threw a boomerang, and it came back on them. This diversity cult was a fatal mistake. I hope the Chinese scholars who study this website one-hundred years hence come to the same conclusion and decide not to repeat this mistake for Asia. Consider this post to be a message in a bottle on what not to do.

        *The Ruling Class certainly think this is possible. This is why they are changing debate rules to lock out dissidents like Gabbard and communist Hispanics like Castro, a guy who might rile up fellow Chavezistas. And that’s why they are desperate to control the narrative, sicking their goons at MSNBC and the NYT to attack anyone in the democratic party who supports socialist policies – guys like Bernie Sanders. That’s also why they are desperately promoting a Joe Biden who has clearly declined from his mental peak in the early 1990s (compare C-SPAN videos of Biden in 1993 with his present speeches). Obama apparently tried telling him not to run. I think he knows Joe’s condition, but the deepstate has no other choice. Castro would turn the country into Venezuela, Gabbard would end the empire, Bernie will take from the Ruling Class, and Warren is crazy enough with her Supreme Court proposal to cause the red states to secede. This corrupt political system is just about out of gas in the tank. The GOP 2016 line-up was awful. The 2020 democrat line-up is shaping up to be even worse. That has to scare a few people.

        **A very short list exemplifying what I mean:

        Criminal justice reform blamed for higher crime rates

        https://www.sfchronicle.com/crime/article/Prop-47-is-linked-to-increase-in-auto-thefts-12989137.php

        Kamala to Increase Minority Homeownership by Giving Blacks $100 Billion

        http://www.unz.com/isteve/kamala-and-liz-announce-they-will-give-money-to-blacks/#comment-3315216

        West Point Has Become a Bad Joke

        https://www.the-american-catholic.com/2017/10/13/west-point-is-a-bad-joke/

        The Disastrous Initiative to Hire Air Traffic Controllers Based on Diversity, Not Talent

        https://www.dailysignal.com/2018/06/27/the-disastrous-initiative-to-hire-air-traffic-controllers-based-on-diversity-not-talent/

        Why Regulators Went Soft on Monopolies

        https://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/why-the-regulators-went-soft-on-monopolies/

        • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
        The pithy summation--We Are Doomed.
      76. @216

        As I have said elsewhere, I find “male spaces” perfectly comfortable. This is a misogynist space. There’s a difference.
         
        I'm sorry that you feel that way. Undoubtedly these communities do tend to attract those with a chip on their shoulder.

        So what? That doesn’t mean it can’t poison the pro-White well.
         
        What are some ways that you think a white identity politics can be palatable to the university-educated young woman?

        So you do hate women. If you don’t, I can’t see why you wouldn’t want women to have any bargaining power.
         
        Again, my apologies. Reimagine this stance as replacing "remove" with "re-balance" or "reduce".

        You wouldn’t tolerate radical feminists coming on this site and badmouthing White men to the point of discouraging White women to marry them, would you?
         
        This is not my site, it's Ron's and he sublets it to AE, Steve and Karlin. If he wants to add a radical feminist or TERF blogger, maybe it would be interesting. I would welcome radical feminists to read this site and comment. They might learn a few things, and might even meet a husband.

        What are some ways that you think a white identity politics can be palatable to the university-educated young woman?

        I don’t know that it can, at least not until the brainwashing wears off, but that’s beside the point. The way women are spoken of here is offensive not only to them, but to all women, and many men who cherish their wives, sisters, mothers, and daughters. Sometimes it is necessary to say offensive things, for example, when men are being accused of conspiring to exclude women from STEM careers, they are entitled to defend themselves by recourse to any facts, flattering or not.

        Again, my apologies. Reimagine this stance as replacing “remove” with “re-balance” or “reduce”.

        OK. I acknowledge the clarification, though I absolutely reject your premise that women have excessive bargaining power, for which I have seen no evidence here or elsewhere.

        Some of her children may be grown adults, as IIRC she mentioned being married at a younger age.

        Not quite grown, but not little either. In any event, it’s true that I would rather be doing other things than having these arguments on the Internet, but I feel it is absolutely necessary. And yes, I married young.

        • Replies: @216

        I don’t know that it can, at least not until the brainwashing wears off, but that’s beside the point. The way women are spoken of here is offensive not only to them, but to all women, and many men who cherish their wives, sisters, mothers, and daughters.
         
        If you can, come back later after thinking about it. This is a question that you are best placed to provide an answer to.

        One of the common paths that men take into the Dissident movements and the manosphere is after receiving a sort of emotional trauma that causes a realignment of their values system. This is called "The Anger Phase" or "Red Pill Rage". Normally this dissipates into either constructive action, or blackpilled nihilism. Actual violence is sparse, but real enough.

        The wider Right elected a President thrice-married who is probably a serial groper. It's most famous millennial is a creepy Jew that bullies the inexperienced with "facts don't care about your feelings".

        So I don't think this issue is unique to this blog, site or the Dissident movements.

        We are part of a decaying and coarse culture, and not inclined to offer kindness.
        , @iffen
        but I feel it is absolutely necessary

        Care to elaborate on this? I think most are here for the entertainment. Some, like me, in addition to enjoying the entertainment appreciate the edification (or at least pointers in that direction).
      77. anonymous[252] • Disclaimer says:
        @neutral
        Say what you want about Argentina, but at least they have not doing the white genocide that the USA is doing. Long term their prospects are going to be much better than the brown blob of the area formerly known as the USA.

        From a 2011 article:

        “Argentina’s current law treats immigration as a human right and consequently prioritizes the reunification of families, facilitates the ability of immigrants to obtain residency, and allows free access to health care and education. Immigrants are also granted a right to legal counsel. All residents of neighboring countries are eligible for residency, regardless of whether or not they have a job.”

        During Macri’s tenure, he tightened up some immigration controls but, if his opponent is elected, it’s likely that it’ll revert to the 2011 scenario. If it wasn’t for the incompetence and corruption of the govt, both right and left, which strangles the economy, mass migration would be much more of a problem.

      78. @Rosie

        Even if not, a ‘new order’ that includes feminism isn’t worth striving for — better to let mass immigration et al finish the job.
         
        The race traitor shows himself again.

        I thought I was a Jew. Apparently not only can Jews shapeshift between white and non-white at whim, but others can transmute them as well. Who knew?

      79. @Rosie

        What are some ways that you think a white identity politics can be palatable to the university-educated young woman?
         
        I don't know that it can, at least not until the brainwashing wears off, but that's beside the point. The way women are spoken of here is offensive not only to them, but to all women, and many men who cherish their wives, sisters, mothers, and daughters. Sometimes it is necessary to say offensive things, for example, when men are being accused of conspiring to exclude women from STEM careers, they are entitled to defend themselves by recourse to any facts, flattering or not.

        Again, my apologies. Reimagine this stance as replacing “remove” with “re-balance” or “reduce”.
         
        OK. I acknowledge the clarification, though I absolutely reject your premise that women have excessive bargaining power, for which I have seen no evidence here or elsewhere.

        Some of her children may be grown adults, as IIRC she mentioned being married at a younger age.
         
        Not quite grown, but not little either. In any event, it's true that I would rather be doing other things than having these arguments on the Internet, but I feel it is absolutely necessary. And yes, I married young.

        I don’t know that it can, at least not until the brainwashing wears off, but that’s beside the point. The way women are spoken of here is offensive not only to them, but to all women, and many men who cherish their wives, sisters, mothers, and daughters.

        If you can, come back later after thinking about it. This is a question that you are best placed to provide an answer to.

        One of the common paths that men take into the Dissident movements and the manosphere is after receiving a sort of emotional trauma that causes a realignment of their values system. This is called “The Anger Phase” or “Red Pill Rage”. Normally this dissipates into either constructive action, or blackpilled nihilism. Actual violence is sparse, but real enough.

        The wider Right elected a President thrice-married who is probably a serial groper. It’s most famous millennial is a creepy Jew that bullies the inexperienced with “facts don’t care about your feelings”.

        So I don’t think this issue is unique to this blog, site or the Dissident movements.

        We are part of a decaying and coarse culture, and not inclined to offer kindness.

        • Replies: @Rosie

        One of the common paths that men take into the Dissident movements and the manosphere is after receiving a sort of emotional trauma that causes a realignment of their values system.
         
        That's also how many women become radical feminists. Bad experience with the opposite sex does not justify the hatred and collective blaming, whether it is women doing it or men.

        Suppose I say something like this:

        Women shouldn't have anything to do with men. They are genetically programmed to dehumanize us. Throughout history, men who could use force or trickery without remorse to get women into bed, in total disregard of her feelings, enjoyed a survival advantage. It's their nature by evolution. That's just how they operate.

        Now, might there theoretically be some truth to this? I don't know. It certainly can't be proven, and more importantly, it's not useful. If true, there's nothing men can do about it. Our nature is what it is. We can only control our conduct. The difference between a constructive criticism and a gratuitous insult is that the former addresses something that can be rectified.

        Indeed, in this respect, the manosphere is far more vicious and hateful than feminism has ever been. Feminists tell men what is "wrong" with them, but then proceed to tell them their "toxic masculinity" is learned rather than innate, the corollary being that they can change it and make way for their natural inner goodness.

        Now, I certainly understand that men don't like being told that masculinity is "toxic," I'm just saying that, as ugly as feminism is, the manosphere is uglier still.
        , @Rosie

        If you can, come back later after thinking about it. This is a question that you are best placed to provide an answer to.
         
        A first try at answering this:

        OK, so I don't know if women in general tend to be more "xenophile" than men or not, but I know that I have always been very xenophile. (No, not in that way!) I have always been curious about other people and places. aybe it's a Nordic thing. The diversity message resonated with me in college, because I was already inclined to believe that diversity is a wonderful thing. I took full advantage of multicultural offerings in college, but I also studied the humanities and learned about Western art, philosophy, etc. Much of this was new to me because I came from a working class background.

        So, the messages I was getting were:

        1. Diversity of cultures is wonderful.
        2. It's perfectly fine if Whites go extinct, because we have no "culture."

        I took the logical step that I wasn't supposed to take: that Whites are part of "diversity," and we deserve a future. Furthermore, why would any well-meaning non-White disagree. After all, I was absolutely supportive of non-Whites' cultural pride and identity.

        There was certainly more to it, but this was the most glaring contradiction that set me on the road to crimethink. So, I guess would say that the way to appeal to young college-educated women is to articulate multiculturalism to its logical conclusions. If you want diversity, you must have nations.
      80. @Rosie

        What are some ways that you think a white identity politics can be palatable to the university-educated young woman?
         
        I don't know that it can, at least not until the brainwashing wears off, but that's beside the point. The way women are spoken of here is offensive not only to them, but to all women, and many men who cherish their wives, sisters, mothers, and daughters. Sometimes it is necessary to say offensive things, for example, when men are being accused of conspiring to exclude women from STEM careers, they are entitled to defend themselves by recourse to any facts, flattering or not.

        Again, my apologies. Reimagine this stance as replacing “remove” with “re-balance” or “reduce”.
         
        OK. I acknowledge the clarification, though I absolutely reject your premise that women have excessive bargaining power, for which I have seen no evidence here or elsewhere.

        Some of her children may be grown adults, as IIRC she mentioned being married at a younger age.
         
        Not quite grown, but not little either. In any event, it's true that I would rather be doing other things than having these arguments on the Internet, but I feel it is absolutely necessary. And yes, I married young.

        but I feel it is absolutely necessary

        Care to elaborate on this? I think most are here for the entertainment. Some, like me, in addition to enjoying the entertainment appreciate the edification (or at least pointers in that direction).

      81. @L Woods

        While men can father children later in life than women, sperm count and quality does decline with age. Applying social pressure to men to marry before 30, or even 25; would probably result in better pairings and less birth defects.

        Age gaps are also particularly anathema to the Western European Marriage Pattern, which I cherish as one of the factors that brought our civilization to dominance.
         
        An academic notion (even if true), rendered irrelevant by the present 'facts on the ground.' 22 year old women don't want to marry 22 year old betas; 22 year old women want whore around until or even well past their expiration date. Unfortunately of course, in our wonderful society, they are permitted to do this. I for one will be damned if I'll fall on my sword for the sake of someone's idea of the historical "Western European Marriage Pattern," let alone for a society that spits on me and hates me.

        Dissident politics will, whether we like it or not, acquire a female wing, and it is vital that the gender chasm is bridged.
         
        Dissident politics are doomed, but regardless, women will flock to the powerful and reject the powerless regardless of whatever policy or philosophy may state about their proper role in things. Even if not, a 'new order' that includes feminism isn't worth striving for -- better to let mass immigration et al finish the job.

        Concur. When I joined up with Naval Air in the mid-seventies the notion of Mom, Apple Pie and Chevrolet was worth defending, I guess.

        In that statement is the differences with yesteryear. Today, Mom is a divorced slut, Apple Pie is a turd in a wax paper wrapper and Chevrolet is a bent shit-can from China. Not much left to defend except for the job.

        • Replies: @L Woods
        The job is a far cry from what it once was too, sad to say.
        , @Achmed E. Newman
        Great take-off on the Mom/apple pie thing, Jim! What about baseball? Is that all we have left? I don't follow ANY pro or college sports, but I still have a soft spot for attending a very occasional baseball game.

        (Even with the minor leagues though, some idiots don't get the concept of the price point. Charge too much per game, and no, they may not come, after all.)
      82. @Ghan-buri-Ghan
        Agree that the Chinese are incompetent at combating Western propaganda.

        They should just expel all Jews and Muslims from their country, period.

        To combat propaganda that Muslims are in detention camps, the Chinese government should expel them from the country in toto – brilliant!!! That would definitely stop the finger pointing about Muslims in camps fairly fast!

        Peace.

      83. @216

        I don’t know that it can, at least not until the brainwashing wears off, but that’s beside the point. The way women are spoken of here is offensive not only to them, but to all women, and many men who cherish their wives, sisters, mothers, and daughters.
         
        If you can, come back later after thinking about it. This is a question that you are best placed to provide an answer to.

        One of the common paths that men take into the Dissident movements and the manosphere is after receiving a sort of emotional trauma that causes a realignment of their values system. This is called "The Anger Phase" or "Red Pill Rage". Normally this dissipates into either constructive action, or blackpilled nihilism. Actual violence is sparse, but real enough.

        The wider Right elected a President thrice-married who is probably a serial groper. It's most famous millennial is a creepy Jew that bullies the inexperienced with "facts don't care about your feelings".

        So I don't think this issue is unique to this blog, site or the Dissident movements.

        We are part of a decaying and coarse culture, and not inclined to offer kindness.

        One of the common paths that men take into the Dissident movements and the manosphere is after receiving a sort of emotional trauma that causes a realignment of their values system.

        That’s also how many women become radical feminists. Bad experience with the opposite sex does not justify the hatred and collective blaming, whether it is women doing it or men.

        Suppose I say something like this:

        Women shouldn’t have anything to do with men. They are genetically programmed to dehumanize us. Throughout history, men who could use force or trickery without remorse to get women into bed, in total disregard of her feelings, enjoyed a survival advantage. It’s their nature by evolution. That’s just how they operate.

        Now, might there theoretically be some truth to this? I don’t know. It certainly can’t be proven, and more importantly, it’s not useful. If true, there’s nothing men can do about it. Our nature is what it is. We can only control our conduct. The difference between a constructive criticism and a gratuitous insult is that the former addresses something that can be rectified.

        Indeed, in this respect, the manosphere is far more vicious and hateful than feminism has ever been. Feminists tell men what is “wrong” with them, but then proceed to tell them their “toxic masculinity” is learned rather than innate, the corollary being that they can change it and make way for their natural inner goodness.

        Now, I certainly understand that men don’t like being told that masculinity is “toxic,” I’m just saying that, as ugly as feminism is, the manosphere is uglier still.

      84. @216
        I shudder to think of what happens when the GOP is destroyed nationally as it was in California. When millions wake up to demographic oblivion...well you see why the corporate media has a tendency to downplay what is going on.

        Otoh, Argentina is about to re-elect Kirchner's party, which means more economic illiteracy and a potential escape hatch for us.

        The lion’s share of GOP elites are just concerned about keeping the pork flowing to agribusiness, the Pentagon, and the oil industry. Everything else comes way after those concerns. If they gave a damn about restoring order and security, they’d start throwing academics behind bars for brainwashing their students into hating America. During the whole Reaganite era, there’s been a growing subversion movement promoted from within academia, that the GOP has basically done absolutely nothing about. The results of that cowardice speak for themselves. The cucks have been so busy anxiously running away from the “archaic” practices of the conservative early-mid 20th century middle class, lest they be accused of some sort of ism or phobia, that many Americans are now awash in decadence. Good job, you worthless assholes.

        A wholesome society wouldn’t regularly glorify gambling, promiscuity, reckless spending, homosexuality, and gender bending*. Yet these are all things that have gotten substantially worse over the last 40 years. To the extent that these trend are defied, it’s because modern decadent elites are defied. It’s a far cry from the 1920’s-1970’s, when leaders (e.g., older people) were sane and conservative for the most part (according to the GSS, pre-Boomer generations were much more conservative than the Boomers were, in the 1970’s). Most awful modern trends began with Boomers in the late 60’s and 70’s, and we’ve been plagued by their bull shit ever since. But what do you expect from the biggest generation of drug abusers to ever exist?

        *Youth culture of the late 60’s and 70’s glorified this stuff also, whereas in the 80’s and 90’s “youth” culture became more wholesome to some degree because Gen X isn’t as perverted or monstrous as Boomers are. But Millennials and Gen Z came of age when Boomers were assuming leadership roles in the 90’s and 2000’s, so guess what? In stated values, Millennials and Gen Z are even more perverted than Boomers are (although in terms of actual behavior, the Boomers are far worse).

      85. @Jim Christian
        Concur. When I joined up with Naval Air in the mid-seventies the notion of Mom, Apple Pie and Chevrolet was worth defending, I guess.

        In that statement is the differences with yesteryear. Today, Mom is a divorced slut, Apple Pie is a turd in a wax paper wrapper and Chevrolet is a bent shit-can from China. Not much left to defend except for the job.

        The job is a far cry from what it once was too, sad to say.

        • Replies: @Jim Christian

        The job is a far cry from what it once was too, sad to say.
         
        Hey, flight decks are a lotta fun until they ain't. My bag was air conditioning LOX and ejection seats in the A6, sometimes the F14 (they were both Grumman with some interchangeable parts and systems). Hey, Russia was a fairly serious enemy back then, Communism something to be defeated. It was quite a lark for five years until a Marine dropped his Queer A6 way right into the island and three gassed and armed Tomcats one fine Navy night aboard Nimitz May 81 And here we are, 40 years later less free ourselves than the old Soviets. Khrushchev would have been proud to behold the U.S. security apparatus arrayed against American citizens today. And it's SO Soviet in its nature that it's illegal now to criticize Israel, the acts of any of the races and everything is deemed 'hate speech'. The First ammendment is cooked and the 2nd on the way. And why? Because the products of post-modern Radical Feminist-driven and administered K-16 education systems are bonkers from their 'education' and go nuts getting even. Feminists get the big fat middle finger from ME when they drop the misogynist label as if that changes the truth about the destruction. It's no coincidence; the decline started with the rise of feminist influence.

        And the feminists blame US, me, my fellow White guys? Hilarious. There ain't a damned thing in the society worth defending anymore. No matter what, they are intent on tearing it all down. Wait until they get a taste of what comes after. American women haven't experienced societal chaos, but they sure as hell are fomenting same today.
      86. Women shouldn’t have anything to do with men. They are genetically programmed to dehumanize us. Throughout history, men who could use force or trickery without remorse to get women into bed, in total disregard of her feelings, enjoyed a survival advantage. It’s their nature by evolution. That’s just how they operate.
        Now, might there theoretically be some truth to this? I don’t know. It certainly can’t be proven, and more importantly, it’s not useful. If true, there’s nothing men can do about it. Our nature is what it is. We can only control our conduct. The difference between a constructive criticism and a gratuitous insult is that the former addresses something that can be rectified.

        The former is a typical second-wave separatist feminism sentiment, but atypical in modern third and fourth wave feminism.

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monoamine_oxidase_A#Aggression_and_the_”Warrior_gene”

        I’m just saying that, as ugly as feminism is, the manosphere is uglier still.

        This seems rather empirically unjustified. The manosphere is barely 15 years old, while successive waves of feminism have recurred since the 1960s. Feminism enjoys support from the commanding heights of society, while the manosphere is largely a internet based community.

        Conflating MGTOW with TRP isn’t helpful, akin to the feminists that use MRA or Incel as an insult. It’s correct that the manosphere takes a cynical view of female nature, lest they fall into what is called “pedestalization”.

        You may look at the manosphere with disfavor, but it has arisen and displaced the older blue-pilled social conservatism. The irony is that you share this disdain for the manosphere with UrbaneFrancoOntarian.

        https://therationalmale.com/2012/08/22/just-get-it/

        • Replies: @Rosie

        You may look at the manosphere with disfavor, but it has arisen and displaced the older blue-pilled social conservatism.
         
        Now it sounds like you're saying it is not marginal as you implied earlier. It doesn't matter, anyway. I will fight it either way.

        It’s correct that the manosphere takes a cynical view of female nature, lest they fall into what is called “pedestalization”.
         
        Might that fear of "pedestalization" create a toxic atmosphere where anyone who says anything nice about women gets hooted down like "racist" on BBC Question Time? Might this not result in a one-sided, distorted view of men and women where everything masculine is prosocial and good and everything feminine is antisocial and diabolical. That is what it appears has happened.
        , @Audacious Epigone
        Forgive my ignorance, but what is TRP an acronym for?
      87. @Achmed E. Newman
        No, this is not an engineering or scientific endeavor. Most people can give you a number within 10% or so of how many Americans there are, just because they've heard or read "300 million" or "325 million" or "330 million" enough times. It takes numeracy, and that alone, not some specialized knowledge of immigration* to just go "hey, 1 million a year... man, that's over 3% of the country added in a decade" and picture adding more than 3% more strange people each decade to one's hometown, meaning 3 or 4 more non-whites to your kid's grade, etc..

        Is a murder rate of 5 per 100,000 people incredibly high or incredibly low? Again you’d need to know the rates in the past and the rates in comparable countries.
         
        See that's another social example - no specialized knowledge is required unless you are acting like an actual sociologist (like A.E. here, Sailer etc, vs. the idiot PC intellectuals). Indeed, most would have no idea if that's a good or bad year. However, they can go "hey, that's like 5 people in my city, using the city limits, or 15 people in the metro area each year. That's not too bad." Give them the rate for the ghetto and they can see the danger.

        The innumeracy is especially bad with women as most don't even WANT TO know. Therefore, when one kid in the nation gets abducted (a terrible sad story, I'm sure) we get "Amber's Law" or some crap. They have no idea how little the chances of this happening to their own kids is because "math is hard".

        .

        * that I obtained mostly from the expert writers on VDare.com.

        The innumeracy is especially bad with women as most don’t even WANT TO know. Therefore, when one kid in the nation gets abducted (a terrible sad story, I’m sure) we get “Amber’s Law” or some crap. They have no idea how little the chances of this happening to their own kids is because “math is hard”.

        Rationality has been declining since circa 1970. Americans once, to a large extent, believed in science and objectivity. Then the 70’s happened, and we’ve never quite recovered since (although from I read the early 90’s were the lowest point of interest in “New Age” stuff since the 60’s). So basically for the last 50 years we’ve been heading down the, well, womanish, road of selecting an “attractive” (and usually self-serving) argument and then clinging to it regardless of all evidence to the contrary.

      88. @Mr. Rational

        If we don’t want extremist lunatics shooting up Walmarts in desperate frustration over what they perceive as an invasion the powers that be refuse to acknowledge even exists, let alone deal with–and I certainly don’t–we could stand to have our vaunted media organizations report something approximating the truth about an issue that consistently polls near or at the top of the list of the things Americans find concerning, instead of constantly lying through their teeth about it.
         
        They view such knowledge as "problematic", because if it didn't exist, there wouldn't be anyone shooting up Walmarts over it.  They believe that if they told the truth there would be a lot more such shooters.

        They may even be right.  Where they are wrong is in believing that the problem is the shooters, not the invaders they're shooting.

        Empires are often deeply in denial about their looming collapse, at least among the elite class (whereas proles in the German, or British, Or American empire can just feel the economic and social corrosion that marks the dying phase of an empire).

        I’ve done it before, but I might as well do it again: for the most part (ya know, not including the Civil War) the US built itself up in every way imaginable from it’s initial settlement by the Brits through the early 60’s. Then, well, we know what happened. The 1964 Civil Rights Act. The Tet Offensive in ’68. Nixon being framed by the CIA shortly after he easily won re-election in 1972. Reagan giving the go-ahead to elite decadence by gutting their tax burden in 1981. GHW Bush and Clinton giving us NAFTA in 1993. The obscene orgy of Wall Street speculation that occurred from the mid-90’s-mid 2000’s, under Clinton and Bush. “Iraq has nukes” from Bush in 2003. Obama failing to punish any major players after the 2008 melt-down. Trump winning an election in 2016 by promising to build a wall, and then stabbing Americans in the back by doing more to promote the security of Israel.

        • Agree: Jim Christian, Mark G.
        • Replies: @Mark G.
        There was an internal battle in the Reagan administration between the old style Eisenhower Republicans like David Stockman who wanted balanced budgets and low spending and another group that wanted big tax cuts for the rich and increased defense spending that, when combined together, would lead to large deficits. The Eisenhower Republicans lost. Some advocates of big tax cuts even claimed that they would not result in reduced tax revenues and budget deficits. The first Bush memorably called this "voodoo economics". To get the increased defense spending, the Republicans engaged in political logrolling where they gave the Democrats increased domestic spending in exchange. It may be hard to believe, but defense spending in constant dollars is double now what it was at the height of the cold war in the fifties. Eisenhower, who knew a few things about the military, thought that was enough.
      89. @L Woods
        The job is a far cry from what it once was too, sad to say.

        The job is a far cry from what it once was too, sad to say.

        Hey, flight decks are a lotta fun until they ain’t. My bag was air conditioning LOX and ejection seats in the A6, sometimes the F14 (they were both Grumman with some interchangeable parts and systems). Hey, Russia was a fairly serious enemy back then, Communism something to be defeated. It was quite a lark for five years until a Marine dropped his Queer A6 way right into the island and three gassed and armed Tomcats one fine Navy night aboard Nimitz May 81 And here we are, 40 years later less free ourselves than the old Soviets. Khrushchev would have been proud to behold the U.S. security apparatus arrayed against American citizens today. And it’s SO Soviet in its nature that it’s illegal now to criticize Israel, the acts of any of the races and everything is deemed ‘hate speech’. The First ammendment is cooked and the 2nd on the way. And why? Because the products of post-modern Radical Feminist-driven and administered K-16 education systems are bonkers from their ‘education’ and go nuts getting even. Feminists get the big fat middle finger from ME when they drop the misogynist label as if that changes the truth about the destruction. It’s no coincidence; the decline started with the rise of feminist influence.

        And the feminists blame US, me, my fellow White guys? Hilarious. There ain’t a damned thing in the society worth defending anymore. No matter what, they are intent on tearing it all down. Wait until they get a taste of what comes after. American women haven’t experienced societal chaos, but they sure as hell are fomenting same today.

        • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
        Our posterity is worth defending. Even if I thought all was lost--and I don't--it's not fair for me to come to that conclusion on behalf of my children. Others have done more with less.
        , @Twinkie

        A6, sometimes the F14
         
        I have a buddy who wanted to fly the Tomcat, but got the Intruder. Sad. But then he persevered and ended up with the F/A18 when the A6’s were dumped. He was so, so happy.

        Now he’s an old gunslinger for the federal government.
      90. @216

        Women shouldn’t have anything to do with men. They are genetically programmed to dehumanize us. Throughout history, men who could use force or trickery without remorse to get women into bed, in total disregard of her feelings, enjoyed a survival advantage. It’s their nature by evolution. That’s just how they operate.
        Now, might there theoretically be some truth to this? I don’t know. It certainly can’t be proven, and more importantly, it’s not useful. If true, there’s nothing men can do about it. Our nature is what it is. We can only control our conduct. The difference between a constructive criticism and a gratuitous insult is that the former addresses something that can be rectified.
         
        The former is a typical second-wave separatist feminism sentiment, but atypical in modern third and fourth wave feminism.

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monoamine_oxidase_A#Aggression_and_the_"Warrior_gene"

        I’m just saying that, as ugly as feminism is, the manosphere is uglier still.
         
        This seems rather empirically unjustified. The manosphere is barely 15 years old, while successive waves of feminism have recurred since the 1960s. Feminism enjoys support from the commanding heights of society, while the manosphere is largely a internet based community.

        Conflating MGTOW with TRP isn't helpful, akin to the feminists that use MRA or Incel as an insult. It's correct that the manosphere takes a cynical view of female nature, lest they fall into what is called "pedestalization".

        You may look at the manosphere with disfavor, but it has arisen and displaced the older blue-pilled social conservatism. The irony is that you share this disdain for the manosphere with UrbaneFrancoOntarian.

        https://therationalmale.com/2012/08/22/just-get-it/

        You may look at the manosphere with disfavor, but it has arisen and displaced the older blue-pilled social conservatism.

        Now it sounds like you’re saying it is not marginal as you implied earlier. It doesn’t matter, anyway. I will fight it either way.

        It’s correct that the manosphere takes a cynical view of female nature, lest they fall into what is called “pedestalization”.

        Might that fear of “pedestalization” create a toxic atmosphere where anyone who says anything nice about women gets hooted down like “racist” on BBC Question Time? Might this not result in a one-sided, distorted view of men and women where everything masculine is prosocial and good and everything feminine is antisocial and diabolical. That is what it appears has happened.

      91. @216

        I don’t know that it can, at least not until the brainwashing wears off, but that’s beside the point. The way women are spoken of here is offensive not only to them, but to all women, and many men who cherish their wives, sisters, mothers, and daughters.
         
        If you can, come back later after thinking about it. This is a question that you are best placed to provide an answer to.

        One of the common paths that men take into the Dissident movements and the manosphere is after receiving a sort of emotional trauma that causes a realignment of their values system. This is called "The Anger Phase" or "Red Pill Rage". Normally this dissipates into either constructive action, or blackpilled nihilism. Actual violence is sparse, but real enough.

        The wider Right elected a President thrice-married who is probably a serial groper. It's most famous millennial is a creepy Jew that bullies the inexperienced with "facts don't care about your feelings".

        So I don't think this issue is unique to this blog, site or the Dissident movements.

        We are part of a decaying and coarse culture, and not inclined to offer kindness.

        If you can, come back later after thinking about it. This is a question that you are best placed to provide an answer to.

        A first try at answering this:

        OK, so I don’t know if women in general tend to be more “xenophile” than men or not, but I know that I have always been very xenophile. (No, not in that way!) I have always been curious about other people and places. aybe it’s a Nordic thing. The diversity message resonated with me in college, because I was already inclined to believe that diversity is a wonderful thing. I took full advantage of multicultural offerings in college, but I also studied the humanities and learned about Western art, philosophy, etc. Much of this was new to me because I came from a working class background.

        So, the messages I was getting were:

        1. Diversity of cultures is wonderful.
        2. It’s perfectly fine if Whites go extinct, because we have no “culture.”

        I took the logical step that I wasn’t supposed to take: that Whites are part of “diversity,” and we deserve a future. Furthermore, why would any well-meaning non-White disagree. After all, I was absolutely supportive of non-Whites’ cultural pride and identity.

        There was certainly more to it, but this was the most glaring contradiction that set me on the road to crimethink. So, I guess would say that the way to appeal to young college-educated women is to articulate multiculturalism to its logical conclusions. If you want diversity, you must have nations.

        • Agree: 216
        • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
        That last sentence is gold. These twenty-somethings who lose the decade travelling all over the world must be open to the suggestion that the rest of the world is looking more and more like American suburbia by the day. That's not diversity, that's globohomo, the destroyer of diversity.
      92. @War for Blair Mountain
        The point of no return has been reached......Patriotard I’m a Yankee Doodle Dandy is now a surgically mutilated Tranny Freak.......A nuclear “SCREAMING ACROSS THE SKY”...it’s a comming.....Nuclear War with Christian Russia is inseparable from THE GREAT REPLACEMENT.....Post-Nuclear-post-1965 Immigration Reform Act America...a Cormac McCarthy Novel....The mutant spawn Cannibals of INVADE THE WORLD-INVITE THE WORLD ripping out the intestines of the Preppers.....

        “Toto...I don’t think we are in Kansas anymore.....”

        Some people just want to watch the world burn.

        • Agree: Twinkie
        • Replies: @Twinkie

        Some people just want to watch the world burn.
         
        Invariably those without children.
        , @War for Blair Mountain
        No just the opposite...However, at this point in time the only way to motivate our fellow White Folk is through fear.....Which is probably how and why the Vietnam War ended:FEAR OF THE DRAFT....


        It’s not like what I have written is a low probability event....

        But my point hits on the rock bottom fundamental issue:How WE talk to our fellow Native White Folks about the GREAT REPLACEMENT....

        So what is the fundamental question that we should be asking our fellow Native Born White Americans?

        Answer:Just what are you willing to give up for being a White Racial Minority in post-White Toilet America?.......I wish the Alt Right and Richard Spencer had done this from day one in all of his public talks
      93. @Talha
        Wow - that is pretty amazing! Now that I think about it, I really cannot recall ever having heard a serious analysis on TV about the numbers involved. Which makes sense since many people are not interested in making this a pragmatic discussion but one over emotions.

        Peace.

        Completely off-topic, but - hell yes, Palestinian Authority giving evidence for its legitimacy:
        https://twitter.com/BenWeinthal/status/1163084015156584448

        The US cutting off aid to the West Bank and Gaza (since earlier this year) may end up having positive effects on the ground. Win, win for everyone!

        I feel a bit bad making light of something of great import to you, but watching the anti-nationalist American left twist itself in a pretzel trying to maintain how evil Israel, with its flamboyant gay pride parades every other weekend, is crushing poor put upon the ‘homophobic’ Palestinians makes me smile.

        • Replies: @Talha
        Don’t sweat it; I think it’s great that the Zionists are trying to use this as propaganda - it makes taking sides that much easier.

        Peace.
      94. @Mr. Rational

        If we don’t want extremist lunatics shooting up Walmarts in desperate frustration over what they perceive as an invasion the powers that be refuse to acknowledge even exists, let alone deal with–and I certainly don’t–we could stand to have our vaunted media organizations report something approximating the truth about an issue that consistently polls near or at the top of the list of the things Americans find concerning, instead of constantly lying through their teeth about it.
         
        They view such knowledge as "problematic", because if it didn't exist, there wouldn't be anyone shooting up Walmarts over it.  They believe that if they told the truth there would be a lot more such shooters.

        They may even be right.  Where they are wrong is in believing that the problem is the shooters, not the invaders they're shooting.

        Could be, though the people who are going to react in such a destructive way are going to dig deeper than the corporate media news headlines anyway. Burying the truth may have worked in the past, but it’s not working now.

      95. @The Alarmist
        And that is just the apprehension count ... Americans have a much bigger problem than they realise.

        Well, if there's any justice in the universe, a giant Earth-killing asteroid will shortly follow the end of the second term of Stacey Abrams' Presidency.

        https://www.space.com/asteroid-apophis-2029-flyby-planetary-defense.html

        I guess we have a more appropriate replacement for the “burn it all down” or “cleansing fire” phrases now–“Asking for apophis!”

      96. @WorkingClass
        The American public doesn’t just lack knowledge about what is happening along the southern border, it has anti-knowledge of the situation.

        The possession of anti-knowledge indicates high IQ. Indoctrination Quotient. Or conversely, a negative Intelligence Quotient.

        How about a negative SAT to determine how much anti-knowledge one possesses.

        Ha, though in this particular case college-educated, high-income earners were the most likely to get the answer correct.

      97. @dfordoom

        “journalist”. That’s the problem. You can tell them 800,000 and that’s not any different from 80,000 to them. They just don’t ever do the math or see the scale of things.
         
        Big numbers are essentially meaningless to most people unless they're experts in a particular field. If a particular project, let's say a solar energy project, will cost ten billion dollars, is that a lot of money or not very much? Unless you happen to know how much a natural gas project or a hydroelectric scheme of a nuclear power plant producing the same amount of electricity would cost you really have no way of knowing.

        Is a million immigrants a year a lot or not very many? Unless you know how that compares to other countries as a percentage of total population, or how it compares to immigration levels in the past, it doesn't mean anything.

        Is a murder rate of 5 per 100,000 people incredibly high or incredibly low? Again you'd need to know the rates in the past and the rates in comparable countries.

        Is 2% GDP growth a really great or a really poor economic performance? Unless you know what that translates to in per capita terms and what the rate is in other comparable economies and what the rate was in the past it's meaningless.

        Such numbers are also meaningless unless you know the trends. If your murder rate was 4.5 per 100,000 last year and it's 5 this year it's worrying . If it was 5.5 last year it's encouraging.

        It's not that the vast majority of people are stupid (although that's always a possibility) or that they're innumerate (although that's a very strong possibility) it's more that most people can't possibly have the necessary specialised knowledge in every field. If you tell me your car can go from 0 to 60 in 12 seconds I might be impressed. I might be a good deal less impressed if I knew that a beat-up 25-year-old Chevy could do it in 11.5 seconds.

        The point is well taken, though counting people isn’t really a particularly specialized field of knowledge. Most people have rough idea of the population of the state they live in, for instance. If people in Montana knew that more people where apprehended at the southern border in a single year than live in their entire state, it would shock many of them, I think.

      98. @95Theses

        total number of apprehensions for calendar year 2018 was 467,000
         
        Yes, well, I remember a Dr. Laura episode back in 1997 in which she was counseling a caller who was equivocating about marrying her fiancé because he had recently been arrested for a DUI.

        When the girl attempted to make excuses for the boy by saying that it was his first offense, Dr. Laura replied, “Oh, I assure you – it may be the first time he’s been caught, but it definitely isn’t his first offense."

        So no, those numbers are low.

        Agree, though in fairness to the respondents, the poll question asked about apprehensions along the border, not the total number of people trying to cross.

      99. @Dacian Julien Soros
        This problem originates in another media failure. Most of these hundreds of thousands would be better of in their countries. Nominally, their wages would increase, but in fact, their workload gets heavier, their spare time shorter, and their houses smaller. Unfortunately, they have been told by Americans that the US is the land of opportunity, every evidence of the contrary is a rare case or a straight lie, and the people shitting the streets of San Francisco are probably mental. There's also the idea that any wanker waving an US flag and carrying a green card becomes an American, when, in fact, lots of born-Americans are treated worse than a new arrival from Israel, South Africa, or even India.

        While this could be useful for keeping the masses of Americans in self-blaming apathy, it attracts the Guatemalans.

        This Epigone seems equally convinced that the American Dream is true, and working is all it takes to succeed in America. So what could go wrong in broadcasting that?

        Expound on the last paragraph. I’m not sure I follow. It takes a lot more than a decent wage to live anything like a “successful” life. I don’t discuss it much here, but I am a Stoic in a deeply philosophical sense. I strive to attain Seneca’s understanding of materialism. I think I’m pretty close to attaining it. Concern for my children does complicate things a bit, but not as much as you might think.

        • Replies: @Dacian Julien Soros
        The whole "stop coming to our lands, you are ruining it" implies that there is something to ruin.

        Every time you say "stop coming to our land" you should add "it already sucks for a majority of us, and it failed a majority of our fathers and grandfathers; statistically, you are likely to be screwed at least as hard as our paupers".

        In fact, you should lie about how shit life is in the West, in order to compensate for the decades of state-paid and oligarch-paid propaganda coming from your side.

        Five million Romanians have left. Thousands live under the bridges of London, but would not return, because the BBC tells them daily that Romania is corrupt, and UK is not. Thousand sleep in German parks because DW tells them Romanian social security net is not working, whereas the German one is still holding.The BBC and DW, and their relays in Romanian press don't do enough to explain that the famous British anticorruption effort does not extend to slum landlords, and the famous Hartz IV welfare system does not cover people with German residence.

        You need to make it clear to the poor that they will stay poor, that current Western states can't help their own poor, and will definitely fail foreign poor people. You need to help closing down BBC World Service, DW, RFE.

        You need to stop Soroses of the world from infesting poorer lands with his activists for Open Society. Just like, in theory, US jurisdiction extends to the whole planet, when it comes to bribing governments, just like foreign agents are impeded when they interfere in US elections, Americans must stop state-owned and oligarch-owned propaganda from going overseas.

        You personally need to stop claiming US is better than Somalia. You should make it clear that US / UK / Germany work for a few, and fail their majority. Even Guatemala / Somalia / Romania work for a few. Neither of these is good at turning the poor into middle class. Once currency is accepted, there is no superior system. Market economy, centralized socialism, and pure anarchy are the same. You can't change your fate by changing countries; in fact, you have a better chance to sleep under a bridge if you move.

        Focus on those, and the tide will stop. It's not comfortable for me to be told daily that our country sucks, often by people paid to say so and / or by SOBs who didn't live in more than one place.
      100. @Anonymous
        So this poll shows that people who are not white, not black, and not hispanic are the most numerate. Goes to show that white men don't have the highest degree of numeracy.

        Who here has ever claimed Asians aren’t good at math?!

      101. Women are inherently sociopathic. If allowed to, they will destroy civilization and themselves with it because they are simply wired that way. High-civilization was not possible until the Patriarchy reigned in women’s behavior and denied them any authority. Now that women are unrestrained and allowed authority, high-civilization is collapsing before our eyes.

        Prove me wrong

        • Replies: @Twinkie

        Women are inherently sociopathic. If allowed to, they will destroy civilization
         
        What are you talking about? Women and children are what make men want to build and maintain a civilization.

        A band of unattached men are usually wreckers of civilizations, because they live for war, rapine, and destruction. It's only when they have women and children it dawns on them that they need order and peace (because they can't be around to protect their women and children 24/7 from other bands of unattached men).

        Women civilize men, period.
        , @L Woods
        Love to. Can’t.
        , @Intelligent Dasein

        Now that women are unrestrained and allowed authority,
         
        I just want to clarify something here. What does it mean to "allow" someone authority? Presumably it means, in this context, that the women did not take the authority for themselves but were granted it; but then wouldn't the real authority---and hence the real responsibility---rest with whomever or whatever was doing the allowing?

        I think Anonymous #645 at comment 112 gave a pretty good hint at the answer, viz. "more powerful men of higher social rank," but who else would you say it is specifically? The democratic consensus, the zeitgeist, the media, the ZOG?
        , @Toronto Russian

        Prove me wrong
         
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_ancient_Egypt
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_ancient_Sparta

        Many centuries of great civilization with women making and managing their own money, going to school, etc. Their clothes were even more revealing than modern clothes (some fashions of Egyptian dress didn't cover breasts, and Spartan chitons weren't sewn together at the side).

        Sociopathic, seriously? Sociopathy aka psychopathy (Jon Ronson in The Psychopath Test says there's no clear distinction of the terms) affects about 1% of the general population and shows as a grotesque version of masculine traits. Chaotic aggression and criminality if the patient is stupid, "boss from hell" behavior if he's smart and high-achieving. One of the distinctive traits is shallow affect (no strong emotions).

        I was researching a book about psychopaths and had come to meet Al Dunlap, a merciless cost-cutter and the onetime CEO of Sunbeam, a man who seemed to actually, unlike most humans, enjoy firing people.
        (...)
        Dunlap fired people with such apparent glee that the business magazine Fast Company included him in an article about potentially psychopathic CEOs. All the other CEOs cited were dead or dealing with prison, and therefore unlikely to sue, but it took the plunge with Dunlap anyway, referring to his poor behavioral controls (his first wife charged in her divorce papers that he once threatened her with a knife and muttered that he always wondered what human flesh tasted like) and his lack of empathy (even though he was always telling journalists about his wise and supportive parents, he paid for but didn't turn up at either of their funerals).
        (...)
        “Oh!” I said. “One more thing. When you see a crime-scene photograph—something really grotesque, someone's face blown apart—do you react with horror?”

        He shook his head. “No,” he said. “I think I intellectualize it.”

        “Really?” I said. “It makes you curious? It's absorbing? Like a puzzle to be solved?”

        “Curious.” Al nodded. “As opposed to ‘Oh, my gosh, that's frightened me!’ ”
        https://www.gq.com/story/your-boss-is-a-psycho-jon-ronson
         
        Isn't the red pill orthodoxy that women are direct opposite of that - having too strong emotions, empathyzing with too many and too distant people, crying over upsetting pictures? You have to pick one or another.
      102. @iffen
        If my halves marry whites and have Catholic numbers of children, I will win the race

        I didn't think about carrying it out further. You are right; you will likely "win".

        As AE often writes, future belongs to those who have… many descendants.

        • Agree: Audacious Epigone
      103. anon[150] • Disclaimer says:

        “Empires are often deeply in denial about their looming collapse, at least among the elite class (whereas proles in the German, or British, Or American empire can just feel the economic and social corrosion that marks the dying phase of an empire).”

        Of his return: a Roman patrician tells of how he lived the collapse of the empire.

        “That’s even more chilling than the report on the decaying cities and fortifications. How could Namatianus be so short-sighted? How can it be that he doesn’t see that there is much more to the fall of Rome than the loss of the patriarchal virtues of the ancient? And, yet, it is not just a problem with Namatianus. The Romans never really understood what was happening to their Empire, except in terms of military setbacks that they always saw as temporary. They always seemed to think that these setbacks could be redressed by increasing the size of the army and building more fortifications. And they got caught in a deadly spiral in which the more resources they spent in armies and fortifications, the poorer the Empire became. And the poorer the Empire became, the more difficult it was to keep it together. Eventually, by the mid 5th century, there were still people in Ravenna who pretended to be “Roman Emperors”, but nobody was paying attention to them any longer.”

        https://chimeramyth.blogspot.com/2015/05/of-his-return-roman-patrician-tells-of.html

      104. @Anon
        Can you blame them, though? Guys like Trevor Noah and his cadre of liars at Comedy Central (and network television) spend every night brainwashing their gullible young audience into believing caravans and the such are no big deal. Stewart did the same thing for years: "There is no War On Christmas"; meanwhile, cities across the country end Christmas parades because they aren't inclusive enough. We let masses of foreigners in, like Noah, and now they are remaking the country to their short-term benefit. That was always going to be the outcome of diversity. How could anyone think otherwise? Brainwashing works, and this proves it. Just another example of how the GOP screwed the pooch by letting their ideological enemies monopolize information distribution nodes.

        "I shudder to think of what happens when the GOP is destroyed nationally as it was in California. When millions wake up to demographic oblivion…well you see why the corporate media has a tendency to downplay what is going on ... Argentina is about to re-elect Kirchner’s party, which means more economic illiteracy..."

        Things are going to get very bad, that's for sure; although, once the GOP is destroyed, we may get a brief Era of Good Feelings just before TSHTF. From my point of view, I've long suspected Venezuela and Argentina will turn out to be examples of America's impending future. With the GOP destroyed nationally thanks to demographic change (ironically supported by party leadership), there will be no restraining mechanism on the incompetent, increasingly POC, masses. Envious, they will demand equal outcomes in everything - income, jobs, movie representation, crime stats, home ownership, college admissions. What they cannot create on their own they will seize from the despised white plurality and there will be no one to stop them because republicans can't win national elections; all federal judges appointed after Trump will be democrats; all presidents will be democrats; congress will be controlled by democrats; the media will all be located in democrat-voting strong-holds; the military and police forces will be heavily pozzed; guns will be banned; "hate speech" will be prohibited; censorship will be rampant.

        That means wealth, achievement, and cultural transfers from productive whites to POC. Hence, the current talk of reparations; hence, the continual race swapping of white movie characters created by white males with POC; hence, the conspiracy theories of "white supremacy" and "institutional racism", etc. It's all a racket to legitimize taking from one racial group and giving the bounty to their own. The end result will be continual economic and societal ruin** - a housing crisis, a debt crisis, a crime rate crisis, a military competency crisis, a corporate competitiveness crisis, a corruption crisis, a homelessness crisis, a fuel price crisis, a college academic crisis, an entertainment industry crisis, an institutional faith crisis, a diplomatic crisis, etc etc etc.

        This kind of naked racial theft helped cause the Housing Crisis of 2008 (see Sailer's Minority Mortgage Meltdown: https://www.unz.com/isteve/2002-bushs-speech-to-white-house/), and it will only get worse in the future. Imagine an economic crisis every decade due to government mismanagement of the economy. It could happen. It did happen in Venezuela where the masses rose up and threw off the whitish upper-class and elected socialist Hugo Chavez. Millions then fled, just as we saw earlier with Zimbabwe and South Africa once their systems deteriorated. Under Obama, the US reached record high levels of citizenship renouncements and subsequent emigration, but I suspect that's just a taste of what's to come in the future.

        Even without US sanctions, which I admit have greatly worsened things, the situation in Venezuela would be worse than it was before the Chavez/Maduro gang came to power. How ironic would it be if the US overthrew Maduro only to elect his ideological soulmate in 20 years time? Just look at the current crop running for the democratic nomination and tell me that's not a possibility.* I wouldn't be surprised if the permanent democrat state started stealing white people's homes using eminent domain / reparations logic in a few decades. There is already the precedent from South Africa and Zimbabwe.

        Do you imagine the US dollar remaining the global reserve currency like that? I don't. Expect a marked decline in per capita purchasing power over the next 20 years. Americans are all ready having to take out loans to maintain the standard of living their parents had; wage growth is stagnant; most jobs created are low-wage; tens of millions of irreplaceable Boomers are about to retire and leave behind a less numerous generation of whites with fewer income-generating opportunities while other net tax-consuming demographics (blacks consume ~1/3rd trillion dollars more than they make annually) grow or remain stable; long-term federal government liabilities are soaring; nearly every state pension program is underfunded. I can only imagine what a reduced economic and geopolitical status will do to the United States on top of that. Dark times ahead.

        PS. Israel is also doomed in the long-term. The Squad is now targeting them, too. One of them recently called for a boycott of Bill Maher's program because he criticized them, something white males are no longer allowed to do. The one bit of solace I get from this situation is knowing that pro-Israel guys like Chuck Schumer, guys who thought they could trick gullible Lindsey Graham types into killing themselves with immigration, have also killed Israel in the process. They'll go to their graves knowing this. They threw a boomerang, and it came back on them. This diversity cult was a fatal mistake. I hope the Chinese scholars who study this website one-hundred years hence come to the same conclusion and decide not to repeat this mistake for Asia. Consider this post to be a message in a bottle on what not to do.

        *The Ruling Class certainly think this is possible. This is why they are changing debate rules to lock out dissidents like Gabbard and communist Hispanics like Castro, a guy who might rile up fellow Chavezistas. And that's why they are desperate to control the narrative, sicking their goons at MSNBC and the NYT to attack anyone in the democratic party who supports socialist policies - guys like Bernie Sanders. That's also why they are desperately promoting a Joe Biden who has clearly declined from his mental peak in the early 1990s (compare C-SPAN videos of Biden in 1993 with his present speeches). Obama apparently tried telling him not to run. I think he knows Joe's condition, but the deepstate has no other choice. Castro would turn the country into Venezuela, Gabbard would end the empire, Bernie will take from the Ruling Class, and Warren is crazy enough with her Supreme Court proposal to cause the red states to secede. This corrupt political system is just about out of gas in the tank. The GOP 2016 line-up was awful. The 2020 democrat line-up is shaping up to be even worse. That has to scare a few people.

        **A very short list exemplifying what I mean:

        Criminal justice reform blamed for higher crime rates

        https://www.sfchronicle.com/crime/article/Prop-47-is-linked-to-increase-in-auto-thefts-12989137.php

        Kamala to Increase Minority Homeownership by Giving Blacks $100 Billion

        http://www.unz.com/isteve/kamala-and-liz-announce-they-will-give-money-to-blacks/#comment-3315216

        West Point Has Become a Bad Joke

        https://www.the-american-catholic.com/2017/10/13/west-point-is-a-bad-joke/

        The Disastrous Initiative to Hire Air Traffic Controllers Based on Diversity, Not Talent

        https://www.dailysignal.com/2018/06/27/the-disastrous-initiative-to-hire-air-traffic-controllers-based-on-diversity-not-talent/

        Why Regulators Went Soft on Monopolies

        https://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/why-the-regulators-went-soft-on-monopolies/

        The pithy summation–We Are Doomed.

      105. @216

        Women shouldn’t have anything to do with men. They are genetically programmed to dehumanize us. Throughout history, men who could use force or trickery without remorse to get women into bed, in total disregard of her feelings, enjoyed a survival advantage. It’s their nature by evolution. That’s just how they operate.
        Now, might there theoretically be some truth to this? I don’t know. It certainly can’t be proven, and more importantly, it’s not useful. If true, there’s nothing men can do about it. Our nature is what it is. We can only control our conduct. The difference between a constructive criticism and a gratuitous insult is that the former addresses something that can be rectified.
         
        The former is a typical second-wave separatist feminism sentiment, but atypical in modern third and fourth wave feminism.

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monoamine_oxidase_A#Aggression_and_the_"Warrior_gene"

        I’m just saying that, as ugly as feminism is, the manosphere is uglier still.
         
        This seems rather empirically unjustified. The manosphere is barely 15 years old, while successive waves of feminism have recurred since the 1960s. Feminism enjoys support from the commanding heights of society, while the manosphere is largely a internet based community.

        Conflating MGTOW with TRP isn't helpful, akin to the feminists that use MRA or Incel as an insult. It's correct that the manosphere takes a cynical view of female nature, lest they fall into what is called "pedestalization".

        You may look at the manosphere with disfavor, but it has arisen and displaced the older blue-pilled social conservatism. The irony is that you share this disdain for the manosphere with UrbaneFrancoOntarian.

        https://therationalmale.com/2012/08/22/just-get-it/

        Forgive my ignorance, but what is TRP an acronym for?

        • Replies: @216
        The Red Pill

        I use TRP, the name of a subreddit, as a substitute for the term "PUA" or pick-up-artist.
      106. @216

        I don’t like to not take people at their words, but I doubt Rosie has six kids. I know moms with four kids and up and none – I mean none – has time to spend arguing with strangers on the net (now the husbands…).
         
        Now, no one knows you are a dog on the Internet.

        That said, I have never doubted that Rosie is a woman.

        I have accused UrbaneFrancoOntarian of being an RCMP agent. I stand by that accusation.

        Mastering the female voice is hard for a man to do. Afaik, Rosie has never discussed her husband or children, which is rather unusual for a wife, but she has a rather dominant personality and may not need to live vicariously as a lot of woman are wont to do. Some of her children may be grown adults, as IIRC she mentioned being married at a younger age.

        That said, I have never doubted that Rosie is a woman.

        She has to be a woman. Her selective use of logic and evidence, which is intended to win arguments rather than get at the truth, is pretty stereotypically feminine trait.

        I just don’t think she has six children, given how much time she spends here. And I don’t think it’s because her husband helps out a lot either. She complained of having to negotiate with him on everything.

        dominant personality

        I don’t equate petulance with dominance. She is much too whiney to be a dominant personality. I know truly dominant women – they have a bulldozer-like personality and get their way, everything else be darned.

        Some of her children may be grown adults

        She also wrote of taking care of small children and her vocabulary is not that of older women.

        • Replies: @iffen
        Her selective use of logic and evidence, which is intended to win arguments rather than get at the truth, is pretty stereotypically feminine trait.

        Since we have the green light to use stereotypes, I point out that she takes a typically feminine view toward WN ideology. Just like women went into a male dominated video game milieu and decided it need "straightening out", she stumbled into WN ideology and set about to try and remake it to suit her view.
      107. 216 says: • Website

        O/T

        Polls, Germany lander election, Sachsen

        This province routinely gives AFD its best results nationwide. They are having regional elections on Sep. 1

        https://dawum.de/Sachsen/

        AFD has underperformed in some polls, but still is strong in the Eastern states. They came in first in this province in the national elections, and it would be an earthquake if they outperformed the polls by a point or two, thus finishing in first.

        Previous election turnout 49%

        Bonus

        Thuringen, Oct 27

        https://dawum.de/Thueringen/

        This is the big one. Looking at the coalition alignments, no coalition is possible unless CDU sits with Linke. The Thuringen party leader, Bjorn Hocke, could take over the national leadership of AFD should he pull off a second surprise and finish in first. Unless of course they throw him in prison first.

      108. @Audacious Epigone
        Forgive my ignorance, but what is TRP an acronym for?

        The Red Pill

        I use TRP, the name of a subreddit, as a substitute for the term “PUA” or pick-up-artist.

      109. @Jim Christian

        The job is a far cry from what it once was too, sad to say.
         
        Hey, flight decks are a lotta fun until they ain't. My bag was air conditioning LOX and ejection seats in the A6, sometimes the F14 (they were both Grumman with some interchangeable parts and systems). Hey, Russia was a fairly serious enemy back then, Communism something to be defeated. It was quite a lark for five years until a Marine dropped his Queer A6 way right into the island and three gassed and armed Tomcats one fine Navy night aboard Nimitz May 81 And here we are, 40 years later less free ourselves than the old Soviets. Khrushchev would have been proud to behold the U.S. security apparatus arrayed against American citizens today. And it's SO Soviet in its nature that it's illegal now to criticize Israel, the acts of any of the races and everything is deemed 'hate speech'. The First ammendment is cooked and the 2nd on the way. And why? Because the products of post-modern Radical Feminist-driven and administered K-16 education systems are bonkers from their 'education' and go nuts getting even. Feminists get the big fat middle finger from ME when they drop the misogynist label as if that changes the truth about the destruction. It's no coincidence; the decline started with the rise of feminist influence.

        And the feminists blame US, me, my fellow White guys? Hilarious. There ain't a damned thing in the society worth defending anymore. No matter what, they are intent on tearing it all down. Wait until they get a taste of what comes after. American women haven't experienced societal chaos, but they sure as hell are fomenting same today.

        Our posterity is worth defending. Even if I thought all was lost–and I don’t–it’s not fair for me to come to that conclusion on behalf of my children. Others have done more with less.

      110. @Rosie

        If you can, come back later after thinking about it. This is a question that you are best placed to provide an answer to.
         
        A first try at answering this:

        OK, so I don't know if women in general tend to be more "xenophile" than men or not, but I know that I have always been very xenophile. (No, not in that way!) I have always been curious about other people and places. aybe it's a Nordic thing. The diversity message resonated with me in college, because I was already inclined to believe that diversity is a wonderful thing. I took full advantage of multicultural offerings in college, but I also studied the humanities and learned about Western art, philosophy, etc. Much of this was new to me because I came from a working class background.

        So, the messages I was getting were:

        1. Diversity of cultures is wonderful.
        2. It's perfectly fine if Whites go extinct, because we have no "culture."

        I took the logical step that I wasn't supposed to take: that Whites are part of "diversity," and we deserve a future. Furthermore, why would any well-meaning non-White disagree. After all, I was absolutely supportive of non-Whites' cultural pride and identity.

        There was certainly more to it, but this was the most glaring contradiction that set me on the road to crimethink. So, I guess would say that the way to appeal to young college-educated women is to articulate multiculturalism to its logical conclusions. If you want diversity, you must have nations.

        That last sentence is gold. These twenty-somethings who lose the decade travelling all over the world must be open to the suggestion that the rest of the world is looking more and more like American suburbia by the day. That’s not diversity, that’s globohomo, the destroyer of diversity.

        • Replies: @Rosie

        That’s not diversity, that’s globohomo, the destroyer of diversity.
         
        Indeed, it's a very depressing business.
      111. @Anon
        The manosphere is merely an imperfect and reactionary counter-movement against feminism and anti-male laws. It has no staying power absent temporary feminism. Don't worry about its supporters for the long-term. They're merely a phenomenon of the times, and not in any way a permanent part of society once feminism is erased. In the meantime, don't underestimate the wide destruction of feminism and its individual effects (divorce rape, etc) that have spawned the individuals who drive the temporary movement.

        You can rail against them, but its like shouting at a storm. There's nothing to be done. Its best to ignore them and allow historical forces even them out. Which they will.

        In the meantime, don’t underestimate the wide destruction of feminism and its individual effects (divorce rape, etc) that have spawned the individuals who drive the temporary movement.

        What do you think can/should be done about “divorce rape”?

        • Replies: @Sollipsist
        Yikes, looks like the jargon-spewing scolders have begun their colonization of Unz.

        I guess it was just a matter of time. Now taking bets on whether the site will survive longer than this chick's conspicuous resistance to miscegenation. Il bet she already fantasizes about baking brown buns in her oven.
      112. anon[645] • Disclaimer says:

        “As I have said elsewhere, I find “male spaces” perfectly comfortable. This is a misogynist space. There’s a difference.”

        Men under attack tend to want to lash out and women are easier targets than the actual responsible parties, most of which are powerful men of higher social rank; summoning the courage and will for a head-on assault against such power isn’t something most guys are willing to do…yet.* White women majority-voted for Donald Trump, which is impressive considering how irrational his campaign was and how little the corrupt, short-sighted GOP is willing to offer women voters. With the right policies, the GOP could get 10 – 20% more white female votes, but that would require dogmatic libertarian types and social conservatives to downplay some of their ideologies. Women would follow if these guys could lead the way properly. If they won’t do that, then they have no one to blame but themselves.

        Personally, I’ve always been a bit uncomfortable with the woman-hate I’ve seen around dissent parts. I think that’s something we should work on. It does seem to be getting better, though. Lots of conservative women post on YouTube and social media, sans Lauren Southern who turned out to be a government spy. Oops.

        *https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXGUNvIFTQw

      113. @Audacious Epigone
        Some people just want to watch the world burn.

        Some people just want to watch the world burn.

        Invariably those without children.

        • Agree: Audacious Epigone
      114. @Audacious Epigone
        That last sentence is gold. These twenty-somethings who lose the decade travelling all over the world must be open to the suggestion that the rest of the world is looking more and more like American suburbia by the day. That's not diversity, that's globohomo, the destroyer of diversity.

        That’s not diversity, that’s globohomo, the destroyer of diversity.

        Indeed, it’s a very depressing business.

      115. @Audacious Epigone
        I feel a bit bad making light of something of great import to you, but watching the anti-nationalist American left twist itself in a pretzel trying to maintain how evil Israel, with its flamboyant gay pride parades every other weekend, is crushing poor put upon the 'homophobic' Palestinians makes me smile.

        Don’t sweat it; I think it’s great that the Zionists are trying to use this as propaganda – it makes taking sides that much easier.

        Peace.

      116. @Jim Christian

        The job is a far cry from what it once was too, sad to say.
         
        Hey, flight decks are a lotta fun until they ain't. My bag was air conditioning LOX and ejection seats in the A6, sometimes the F14 (they were both Grumman with some interchangeable parts and systems). Hey, Russia was a fairly serious enemy back then, Communism something to be defeated. It was quite a lark for five years until a Marine dropped his Queer A6 way right into the island and three gassed and armed Tomcats one fine Navy night aboard Nimitz May 81 And here we are, 40 years later less free ourselves than the old Soviets. Khrushchev would have been proud to behold the U.S. security apparatus arrayed against American citizens today. And it's SO Soviet in its nature that it's illegal now to criticize Israel, the acts of any of the races and everything is deemed 'hate speech'. The First ammendment is cooked and the 2nd on the way. And why? Because the products of post-modern Radical Feminist-driven and administered K-16 education systems are bonkers from their 'education' and go nuts getting even. Feminists get the big fat middle finger from ME when they drop the misogynist label as if that changes the truth about the destruction. It's no coincidence; the decline started with the rise of feminist influence.

        And the feminists blame US, me, my fellow White guys? Hilarious. There ain't a damned thing in the society worth defending anymore. No matter what, they are intent on tearing it all down. Wait until they get a taste of what comes after. American women haven't experienced societal chaos, but they sure as hell are fomenting same today.

        A6, sometimes the F14

        I have a buddy who wanted to fly the Tomcat, but got the Intruder. Sad. But then he persevered and ended up with the F/A18 when the A6’s were dumped. He was so, so happy.

        Now he’s an old gunslinger for the federal government.

        • Replies: @Jim Christian

        I have a buddy who wanted to fly the Tomcat, but got the Intruder.
         
        Your buddy must not have been a Canoe U graduate. I knew officers who were AE grads from VPI with a Masters from MIT, they couldn't get a SNIFF at a Tomcat. Guy I went to High School with was similarly educated, he got jets, but then S-3s. Heh..The others I knew were all A-6 pilots and B/Ns. And every one of em had an edge to them. Back then, most of them had been to Vietnam. The A-6 was a great plane. They lost a fairly heavy bombing capability, range and coincidentally also lost a plane (KA-6 Intruder) that could haul 26,000 pounds of fuel aloft. It cost when they retired that plane. It cost a LOT. Every facet of Naval aviation was compromised when that birdie went away with no replacement.
      117. @Achmed E. Newman
        No, this is not an engineering or scientific endeavor. Most people can give you a number within 10% or so of how many Americans there are, just because they've heard or read "300 million" or "325 million" or "330 million" enough times. It takes numeracy, and that alone, not some specialized knowledge of immigration* to just go "hey, 1 million a year... man, that's over 3% of the country added in a decade" and picture adding more than 3% more strange people each decade to one's hometown, meaning 3 or 4 more non-whites to your kid's grade, etc..

        Is a murder rate of 5 per 100,000 people incredibly high or incredibly low? Again you’d need to know the rates in the past and the rates in comparable countries.
         
        See that's another social example - no specialized knowledge is required unless you are acting like an actual sociologist (like A.E. here, Sailer etc, vs. the idiot PC intellectuals). Indeed, most would have no idea if that's a good or bad year. However, they can go "hey, that's like 5 people in my city, using the city limits, or 15 people in the metro area each year. That's not too bad." Give them the rate for the ghetto and they can see the danger.

        The innumeracy is especially bad with women as most don't even WANT TO know. Therefore, when one kid in the nation gets abducted (a terrible sad story, I'm sure) we get "Amber's Law" or some crap. They have no idea how little the chances of this happening to their own kids is because "math is hard".

        .

        * that I obtained mostly from the expert writers on VDare.com.

        It takes numeracy, and that alone, not some specialized knowledge of immigration* to just go “hey, 1 million a year… man, that’s over 3% of the country added in a decade” and picture adding more than 3% more strange people each decade to one’s hometown

        Yes, that’s a valid point. One of the easiest ways to lie to people is to conveniently forget to let then know how the numbers will add up over time. Advertisers do this all the time. We have this great offer and it will only cost you five bucks a day. Five bucks a day is nothing. But it’s the best part of two grand a year. People will fall for that trick almost every time.

        So you do need at least a base level of numeracy. But you need context as well. And if the issue involves economic effects you need at least a smidgeon of specialised knowledge.

        Risk is the other thing that ordinary people just cannot think sensibly about. You tell them that “studies show” that people who eat food food containing Epsilon-542 Enzymes have a higher risk of developing the rare but nasty Gibson-Wilkinson Syndrome they panic. When you try to point out that the fact that it increases your likelihood of developing this syndrome from 5 chances in 100 million to 5.1 chances in 100 million they still panic.

        Add in multiple risk factors that have to be balanced – Epsilon-542 Enzymes increase your likelihood of developing Gibson-Wilkinson Syndrome from 5 chances in 100 million to 5.1 chances in 100 million but they reduce your chances of getting Blenkinsop’s Disease from 2 in 100 million to 1 in 100 million and they have no idea what to do.

        • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

        Epsilon-542 Enzymes increase your likelihood of developing Gibson-Wilkinson Syndrome from 5 chances in 100 million to 5.1 chances in 100 million but they reduce your chances of getting Blenkinsop’s Disease from 2 in 100 million to 1 in 100 million and they have no idea what to do.
         
        Sure they do - continue to eat burgers, pizza, and drink a 2-liter Mountain Dew each day. ;-}. That was an excellent example though. BTW, does Gibson-Wilkinson produce those purple splotches on one's ass, because, if so, I want it covered when we get that one-payer national health plan?
      118. @Rosie

        Uruguay, well that’s different. It’s 90% white, mostly real Spaniards, Germans, Italians, etc.
         
        How about a White Republic in Uruguay?

        It would never be allowed. You'd see middle class White families flourishing like Aussies under the White Australia Policy, wrecking the Diversity is Our Strength Narrative. No Country Left White!

        How about a White Republic in Uruguay?

        It would never be allowed

        You know what will turn such an earthly paradise into a hellhole? White liberals.

        • Agree: L Woods
        • Replies: @MikeatMikedotMike
        You make it sound as if it weren't for white liberals, negros, jews, arabs, mestizos, and east asians would fit in perfectly fine.

        White liberals can only ruin something if they're allowed to. Keeping the identity pawns out of the place goes a long way towards that.
      119. @L Woods
        OT: saw this comment on EJMR and had to post it. Describes modern life better than my pickled brain can these days:

        Sorry bros, 30 year olds dont find "soul mates" or "true love" or even "a b*tch maybe worth wifing." the single girl of your dreams does not exist at your age. theres no female peer waiting to be your devoted true love. shes already loved and lost or was never capable of loving in the first place and in the "best case" scenario where she agrees to marry youll only ever be her husband accessory and sperm donor. youll never matter more to her than her granite countertops or exposed brick or shoe collection. and youll never truly know her or share a life of intimacy with her. just a checking account and and a netflix password.

        that kind of marriage is for other people. like your grandfather. you remember him, right? the man who didnt meet a broken 30 year old shrew on tinder when he decided to start a family?

        sorry. its just not how people are built and its definitely not how our society works. ljl at finding a pure of heart 29 year girlfriend you will love, honor and cherish for the rest of your life. ljl at knowing you want some b*tch from jdate to be the mother of your children.

        this is just as dumb (and sad) as posters asking how to make new friends moving to a new city at age 34. oh wow what a difficult and confusing question! jk its actually really f**king simple because the answer is you cant make friends in a new city at age 32. people dont make friends--real friends who truly enrich their lives--at 32. they already have those friends and youre just a guy theyre being nice to or hanging out with to pass the time.

        there are no solutions. you done f**ked up if youre romantically/socially isolated at 30. its called life and it already happened for everyone else and youre just the dumbass who decided to start trying with a new job/city/okcupid profile like youre going to still maek it with a loving woman who is 31 and single but totally not broken or slvtty.

        and youre going to find a community of chill, loyal friends and neighbors who genuinely care about you and your family and it will finally be morning in america!

        but then again no.

        it wont be morning in america in your 30s. youre aleady slipping down the slope of a life wasted and in your heart you know that. its not a question of what will happen. it happened. you missed your chance and its only getting worse. time only moves in one direction, f*ggot.

        heres the only advice that can help you: hit the motherf**king reset button and hope your next life isnt the dumpster fire your current one is.
         
        Yay

        This guy probably thinks that he’s kicking some gritty realism that others need to hear (and evidently there are many who agree with that assessment), but in reality he’s just whining in a manner no different than the ones he describes.

        Our grandfathers did not have true loves and soulmates, and they did not live in a prelapsarian paradise of unspoiled women. The facts of life do not differ from one generation to the next. Now and always, the majority of marriages have been, if not quite unhappy, then at least something short of ecstatic. The only difference is that our grandfathers took the plunge earlier and swallowed the sting of lost illusions with more dignity. They kept moving forward instead of stopping to complain—a strategy which has always comprised the better part of success. To an outsider looking in, their lives looked easy. We don’t see the anxieties, disappointments, labors, and pains of others; we seldom ever even empathize with them when we know of them, such is the existential solitude and cruelty of this mortal life; but our grandfathers suffered in their time, just as we do in ours.

        The 30-year-old losers and cock-carousel sluts do have a way out of their predicament if they want it: they can accept one another as their sole remaining best option, and try to do their best from there on out. Sure, it may not be ideal, but it isn’t too late, either. The choice before them is no different than the choice that is always before everyone, viz. to do the necessary or do nothing. Whoever you are, wherever you are, you can stop being part of a mistake starting now.

        I do not intend any of this to sound haughty and cavalier. I am not arguing that our own time does not pose a special set of challenges. We live in a decadent age when all the institutions of society are in an advanced state of disrepair. It will probably require the self-sacrifice of millions before anything is set right again, and I am not at all making light of that fact. On the contrary, all I am saying is we need to start making those sacrifices. If wifing up a former slut is your part to play in this battle, that isn’t the hardest and heaviest duty to befall a man.

        Will she be a perfect wife? No. But fuck it, so what? You can handle it. Can’t afford to raise a kid? Yes, you can. You can’t take your money with you when you die anyway. Past your prime and need help getting it up? Take the god damn tadalafil. Addicted to porn? Don’t waste your time trying to break the habit. Just find a quiet moment to whack off when nobody is home and keep it away from the children so that they don’t follow in your footsteps. In short, don’t even try to make anything better. Just stop giving a shit. It can be a very numinous moment when you realize that you can move forward in spite of the difficulties.

        And if you do that, you will have done the best you can under the circumstances, and someday your grandson will look back at your life and think it was all charmed and predestined.

        Or you can abort that grandson by not even trying. The choice is yours.

      120. @dfordoom

        It takes numeracy, and that alone, not some specialized knowledge of immigration* to just go “hey, 1 million a year… man, that’s over 3% of the country added in a decade” and picture adding more than 3% more strange people each decade to one’s hometown
         
        Yes, that's a valid point. One of the easiest ways to lie to people is to conveniently forget to let then know how the numbers will add up over time. Advertisers do this all the time. We have this great offer and it will only cost you five bucks a day. Five bucks a day is nothing. But it's the best part of two grand a year. People will fall for that trick almost every time.

        So you do need at least a base level of numeracy. But you need context as well. And if the issue involves economic effects you need at least a smidgeon of specialised knowledge.

        Risk is the other thing that ordinary people just cannot think sensibly about. You tell them that "studies show" that people who eat food food containing Epsilon-542 Enzymes have a higher risk of developing the rare but nasty Gibson-Wilkinson Syndrome they panic. When you try to point out that the fact that it increases your likelihood of developing this syndrome from 5 chances in 100 million to 5.1 chances in 100 million they still panic.

        Add in multiple risk factors that have to be balanced - Epsilon-542 Enzymes increase your likelihood of developing Gibson-Wilkinson Syndrome from 5 chances in 100 million to 5.1 chances in 100 million but they reduce your chances of getting Blenkinsop's Disease from 2 in 100 million to 1 in 100 million and they have no idea what to do.

        Epsilon-542 Enzymes increase your likelihood of developing Gibson-Wilkinson Syndrome from 5 chances in 100 million to 5.1 chances in 100 million but they reduce your chances of getting Blenkinsop’s Disease from 2 in 100 million to 1 in 100 million and they have no idea what to do.

        Sure they do – continue to eat burgers, pizza, and drink a 2-liter Mountain Dew each day. ;-}. That was an excellent example though. BTW, does Gibson-Wilkinson produce those purple splotches on one’s ass, because, if so, I want it covered when we get that one-payer national health plan?

      121. @L Woods
        Disagree on the “hard core repression going overboard.” Brazilian junta killed a grand total of 400 leftists in two decades; even relatively bloody Argentine junta only get rid of 20000 iirc. Compare to Castro’s body count in the days immediately following the seizure of Havana alone.

        I didn’t say in equal measure to the Commies though. The Commies always take the gold with their body counts.

        • Replies: @L Woods
        Well, given the state of affairs in those countries, I can only suggest they didn’t repress nearly hard enough.
      122. @Jim Christian
        Concur. When I joined up with Naval Air in the mid-seventies the notion of Mom, Apple Pie and Chevrolet was worth defending, I guess.

        In that statement is the differences with yesteryear. Today, Mom is a divorced slut, Apple Pie is a turd in a wax paper wrapper and Chevrolet is a bent shit-can from China. Not much left to defend except for the job.

        Great take-off on the Mom/apple pie thing, Jim! What about baseball? Is that all we have left? I don’t follow ANY pro or college sports, but I still have a soft spot for attending a very occasional baseball game.

        (Even with the minor leagues though, some idiots don’t get the concept of the price point. Charge too much per game, and no, they may not come, after all.)

      123. Hmmmm . . .

        I think it is taking liberties to say that the argument whites have no culture — the issue is what

        identifying a culture is uniquely built around whiteness. That is quite different than a claim of whites have no culture.

      124. @dfordoom

        How about a White Republic in Uruguay?

        It would never be allowed
         
        You know what will turn such an earthly paradise into a hellhole? White liberals.

        You make it sound as if it weren’t for white liberals, negros, jews, arabs, mestizos, and east asians would fit in perfectly fine.

        White liberals can only ruin something if they’re allowed to. Keeping the identity pawns out of the place goes a long way towards that.

        • Agree: Rosie
        • Replies: @dfordoom

        You make it sound as if it weren’t for white liberals, negros, jews, arabs, mestizos, and east asians would fit in perfectly fine.

        White liberals can only ruin something if they’re allowed to. Keeping the identity pawns out of the place goes a long way towards that.
         
        My point was that white liberals will take steps to ensure that those identity pawns are not kept out of the place. As long as you have white liberals you will get diversity.

        It's the white liberals who are the root cause of the problem. They are the root cause of all our problems.
      125. Hmmmmmmm . . . if i may.

        “What do you think can/should be done about “divorce rape”?

        Don’t.

      126. @Achmed E. Newman
        I didn't say in equal measure to the Commies though. The Commies always take the gold with their body counts.

        Well, given the state of affairs in those countries, I can only suggest they didn’t repress nearly hard enough.

        • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
        Their* problems go much deeper than that, Mr. Woods. There is no history in that culture of respect for rights of various sorts, such as there was for the British/American culture going back near 1,000 years. Therefore, there is almost always no middle class. There is the 95% mass of peons kept in poverty that beg, protest, and occasionally revolutionize against the other 5% richies that have their big walls around their compounds with broken glass embedded on top.

        Those peons know no better than to fall for the sickness of Communism every couple of decades. White people can only really thrive there if we were to take over a few governments. They get all pissy about that though, so. ...

        .

        * The Latin Americans, that is.
        , @L Woods
        I don’t disagree, but in at least some cases I think the military regimes had a better ‘program’ and (certainly) ethos than what supplanted them.
      127. @L Woods
        Well, given the state of affairs in those countries, I can only suggest they didn’t repress nearly hard enough.

        Their* problems go much deeper than that, Mr. Woods. There is no history in that culture of respect for rights of various sorts, such as there was for the British/American culture going back near 1,000 years. Therefore, there is almost always no middle class. There is the 95% mass of peons kept in poverty that beg, protest, and occasionally revolutionize against the other 5% richies that have their big walls around their compounds with broken glass embedded on top.

        Those peons know no better than to fall for the sickness of Communism every couple of decades. White people can only really thrive there if we were to take over a few governments. They get all pissy about that though, so. …

        .

        * The Latin Americans, that is.

      128. By posting that comment I didn’t mean to imply total endorsement. I think it’s most poignant regarding social relationships and life milestones generally. About dating, I actually think it’s overly pessimistic; even in the feminist shit hole that is the USSA, a 30 year old male can do much better than a 29 year old slut.

        • Replies: @Rosie

        a 30 year old male can do much better than a 29 year old slut.
         
        A 30 year old serial pump and dumper is a "male" whereas a single woman his age is a "slut."

        Twinkie, I'm going to give you another opportunity to show that you are not a hypocrite.

        https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/67/Hostess-Twinkies.jpg
      129. @L Woods
        By posting that comment I didn’t mean to imply total endorsement. I think it’s most poignant regarding social relationships and life milestones generally. About dating, I actually think it’s overly pessimistic; even in the feminist shit hole that is the USSA, a 30 year old male can do much better than a 29 year old slut.

        a 30 year old male can do much better than a 29 year old slut.

        A 30 year old serial pump and dumper is a “male” whereas a single woman his age is a “slut.”

        Twinkie, I’m going to give you another opportunity to show that you are not a hypocrite.

        • Replies: @L Woods

        A 30 year old serial pump and dumper is a “male” whereas a single woman his age is a “slut.”
         
        Yes, that would be correct. A+
        , @Twinkie

        Twinkie, I’m going to give you another opportunity to show that you are not a hypocrite.
         
        What’s with the random call out? I am not involved in whatever 1000th “men are evil” conversation you are having with everyone.

        As I mentioned already, I call for social exclusion against both men and women of loose morality.

        I won’t keep repeating it just because you have a hole in your brain.
      130. @Twinkie

        That said, I have never doubted that Rosie is a woman.
         
        She has to be a woman. Her selective use of logic and evidence, which is intended to win arguments rather than get at the truth, is pretty stereotypically feminine trait.

        I just don’t think she has six children, given how much time she spends here. And I don’t think it’s because her husband helps out a lot either. She complained of having to negotiate with him on everything.

        dominant personality
         
        I don’t equate petulance with dominance. She is much too whiney to be a dominant personality. I know truly dominant women - they have a bulldozer-like personality and get their way, everything else be darned.

        Some of her children may be grown adults
         
        She also wrote of taking care of small children and her vocabulary is not that of older women.

        Her selective use of logic and evidence, which is intended to win arguments rather than get at the truth, is pretty stereotypically feminine trait.

        Since we have the green light to use stereotypes, I point out that she takes a typically feminine view toward WN ideology. Just like women went into a male dominated video game milieu and decided it need “straightening out”, she stumbled into WN ideology and set about to try and remake it to suit her view.

        • Agree: Twinkie
        • Replies: @L Woods
        Far worthier institutions than WNism have been ruined thusly.
        , @Mark G.
        Rosie has said before she believes in a welfare state that transfers money from men to women, affirmative action that puts men at a disadvantage when applying for jobs and that current divorce and child support laws really favor men but two thirds of divorces are initiated by women because they are irrational and don't understand that the divorce will favor the husband. I don't see how a WN ideology that includes all this is going to appeal to many white males. I also don't see how some of the more extreme anti-female remarks made by some male commenters would appeal to many white females. When nonwhites become a majority in this country, white men and white women may need to band together in self-defense so keeping the lines of communication open and not antagonizing each other so much that a future rapprochement becomes impossible might be a good idea.
      131. @L Woods

        While men can father children later in life than women, sperm count and quality does decline with age. Applying social pressure to men to marry before 30, or even 25; would probably result in better pairings and less birth defects.

        Age gaps are also particularly anathema to the Western European Marriage Pattern, which I cherish as one of the factors that brought our civilization to dominance.
         
        An academic notion (even if true), rendered irrelevant by the present 'facts on the ground.' 22 year old women don't want to marry 22 year old betas; 22 year old women want whore around until or even well past their expiration date. Unfortunately of course, in our wonderful society, they are permitted to do this. I for one will be damned if I'll fall on my sword for the sake of someone's idea of the historical "Western European Marriage Pattern," let alone for a society that spits on me and hates me.

        Dissident politics will, whether we like it or not, acquire a female wing, and it is vital that the gender chasm is bridged.
         
        Dissident politics are doomed, but regardless, women will flock to the powerful and reject the powerless regardless of whatever policy or philosophy may state about their proper role in things. Even if not, a 'new order' that includes feminism isn't worth striving for -- better to let mass immigration et al finish the job.

        Even if not, a ‘new order’ that includes feminism isn’t worth striving for — better to let mass immigration et al finish the job.

        A bleak thought but substantially correct I think. There is no point in trying to save a “white race” that is totally pozzed and feminised and degenerate. Islam would be a much better option than that.

        • Replies: @Rosie

        A bleak thought but substantially correct I think. There is no point in trying to save a “white race” that is totally pozzed and feminised and degenerate. Islam would be a much better option than that.
         
        Can I help you pack?
      132. @EliteCommInc.
        "Is a murder rate of 5 per 100,000 people incredibly high or incredibly low? Again you’d need to know the rates in the past and the rates in comparable countries."

        These questions do require special knowledge of crime stats. It also requires a definition of "low constitutes "high" and high and low in the US verses foreign countries assessments. In a nation of 300 plus million . . .

        20,000 murders . . . is roughly 0.006666666666666667% not even 1% that would generally be considered low bu if those 20,000 occurred in a single community say New York City with a population of 8,000,000 it is still less than 1% at roughly 0.25%, but the impact might be "jarring", especially noting the substantial rate of increase from previous years.

        ---------------------------------------

        1 million people represents low level warfare in my opinion. A fence simply is not going to cut it. And I remain ever dumbfounded by blacks who support it male or female. Those that do have no idea what they are inviting upon themselves.
        ----------------------------

        "Ann Coulter

        @AnnCoulter
        · Sep 9, 2015
        I'm quoting a NYT editorial: "Let Syrians Settle Detroit"

        And yet no one seems capable of making an honest woman of Miss Coulter ---- disturbing. Would that I had the money.

        Once you go Black, you can’t go back. Burn the coal, pay the toll.

      133. @Achmed E. Newman
        I'm not so sure, Rosie. It's all a matter of who really runs the joint. The Latin American nations have their problems, with their endless cycles of Communism, then hard-core repression (usually going a bit overboard too) to beat them back. However, they don't seem to have ever gotten into the PC, SJW, and diversity-is-our-strength crap.

        ” However, they don’t seem to have ever gotten into the PC, SJW, and diversity-is-our-strength crap.”

        They’re working on it real hard and fast as we klick and klack. I have a female divorcee in-law connection who is a hybrid attorney/social worker specializing in divorces, child kidnappings, child custody/support cases, adoptions and the like– all in the trans-national context in the Americas and Europe. I get lots of info and drama from her.

      134. @MikeatMikedotMike
        You make it sound as if it weren't for white liberals, negros, jews, arabs, mestizos, and east asians would fit in perfectly fine.

        White liberals can only ruin something if they're allowed to. Keeping the identity pawns out of the place goes a long way towards that.

        You make it sound as if it weren’t for white liberals, negros, jews, arabs, mestizos, and east asians would fit in perfectly fine.

        White liberals can only ruin something if they’re allowed to. Keeping the identity pawns out of the place goes a long way towards that.

        My point was that white liberals will take steps to ensure that those identity pawns are not kept out of the place. As long as you have white liberals you will get diversity.

        It’s the white liberals who are the root cause of the problem. They are the root cause of all our problems.

        • Replies: @216
        I'd amend your description to say "postgraduate white liberals". If liberalism was mainly a low class phenomenon, it wouldn't have the nation-wrecking power, it would just be an occassional irritant of either/or labor unions and secularism.

        We have a situation where the culture industry is entirely dominated by left-liberals, and conservatives are either not represented or actively excluded.

        IMO, I don't hold liberals entirely responsible for this. Cons are very ineffective at boycotts, and they furthermore have never obstructed liberals from assuming positions of influence in ostensibly conservative movements.

        Would it kill the typical boomercon to cut out sportsball? No, but they engage in the male hamster whenever anyone points it out.

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFGXyn60iC8
        , @MikeatMikedotMike
        "My point was that white liberals will take steps to ensure that those identity pawns are not kept out of the place. As long as you have white liberals you will get diversity."

        And my point is: only if they are allowed to. They've been allowed to. This what The ZBlog refers to as Buckley Conservatism: Basically making small concessions to every leftist demand until the next thing you know The National Review is making the conservative case for underage transsexual marriages between aborted fetuses.

        "It’s the white liberals who are the root cause of the problem. They are the root cause of all our problems."

        They aren't the root cause of the Federal Reserve, endless middle eastern wars, the Frankfurt School, Hollywood propaganda, crony capitalism/corporate welfare, Wall Street corruption, banking cartels, usury, or cultural Marxism.

        White liberals are merely whites who were most successfully indoctrinated into hating themselves and their own kind. They continue to advance and promote that indoctrination but they aren't the root cause of it.
      135. @iffen
        Her selective use of logic and evidence, which is intended to win arguments rather than get at the truth, is pretty stereotypically feminine trait.

        Since we have the green light to use stereotypes, I point out that she takes a typically feminine view toward WN ideology. Just like women went into a male dominated video game milieu and decided it need "straightening out", she stumbled into WN ideology and set about to try and remake it to suit her view.

        Far worthier institutions than WNism have been ruined thusly.

      136. @Rosie

        a 30 year old male can do much better than a 29 year old slut.
         
        A 30 year old serial pump and dumper is a "male" whereas a single woman his age is a "slut."

        Twinkie, I'm going to give you another opportunity to show that you are not a hypocrite.

        https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/67/Hostess-Twinkies.jpg

        A 30 year old serial pump and dumper is a “male” whereas a single woman his age is a “slut.”

        Yes, that would be correct. A+

        • Replies: @Rosie

        Yes, that would be correct. A+
         
        Your honesty is always much appreciated, Woods.

        Come to think of it, I kind of like having you around here. Reading your posts, the moral bankruptcy and near total lack of merit of manosphere complaints become unmistakable. Other posters have a tendency to try to put lipstick on the pig.
      137. @L Woods
        Well, given the state of affairs in those countries, I can only suggest they didn’t repress nearly hard enough.

        I don’t disagree, but in at least some cases I think the military regimes had a better ‘program’ and (certainly) ethos than what supplanted them.

      138. “Once you go Black, you can’t go back. Burn the coal, pay the toll.”

        As someone who has dated black women and white. I am not sure what this means. My housemate is white and we are certainly not on a dating trajectory —

        I need a little more to respond to here.

        But consider this one most the most successful performers is Robert Deniro and his wife is black/african american as was one the wife of movie critic Roger Ebert and they both by all appearances are startlingly happy.

        Success matters, but that would be the case in any marriage. And one might single out entertainment, but Hollywood is no bastion of tolerance until maybe recent history, very recent history – even the famed Rat Pack couldn’t handle it despite all of their carousing.

        Relationships are a matter of choices and preferences –

      139. @Audacious Epigone
        Expound on the last paragraph. I'm not sure I follow. It takes a lot more than a decent wage to live anything like a "successful" life. I don't discuss it much here, but I am a Stoic in a deeply philosophical sense. I strive to attain Seneca's understanding of materialism. I think I'm pretty close to attaining it. Concern for my children does complicate things a bit, but not as much as you might think.

        The whole “stop coming to our lands, you are ruining it” implies that there is something to ruin.

        Every time you say “stop coming to our land” you should add “it already sucks for a majority of us, and it failed a majority of our fathers and grandfathers; statistically, you are likely to be screwed at least as hard as our paupers”.

        In fact, you should lie about how shit life is in the West, in order to compensate for the decades of state-paid and oligarch-paid propaganda coming from your side.

        Five million Romanians have left. Thousands live under the bridges of London, but would not return, because the BBC tells them daily that Romania is corrupt, and UK is not. Thousand sleep in German parks because DW tells them Romanian social security net is not working, whereas the German one is still holding.The BBC and DW, and their relays in Romanian press don’t do enough to explain that the famous British anticorruption effort does not extend to slum landlords, and the famous Hartz IV welfare system does not cover people with German residence.

        You need to make it clear to the poor that they will stay poor, that current Western states can’t help their own poor, and will definitely fail foreign poor people. You need to help closing down BBC World Service, DW, RFE.

        You need to stop Soroses of the world from infesting poorer lands with his activists for Open Society. Just like, in theory, US jurisdiction extends to the whole planet, when it comes to bribing governments, just like foreign agents are impeded when they interfere in US elections, Americans must stop state-owned and oligarch-owned propaganda from going overseas.

        You personally need to stop claiming US is better than Somalia. You should make it clear that US / UK / Germany work for a few, and fail their majority. Even Guatemala / Somalia / Romania work for a few. Neither of these is good at turning the poor into middle class. Once currency is accepted, there is no superior system. Market economy, centralized socialism, and pure anarchy are the same. You can’t change your fate by changing countries; in fact, you have a better chance to sleep under a bridge if you move.

        Focus on those, and the tide will stop. It’s not comfortable for me to be told daily that our country sucks, often by people paid to say so and / or by SOBs who didn’t live in more than one place.

        • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
        Interesting. It's hard to compete with the entertainment industry + social media, but it's not that disingenuous, and it becomes more sincere by the day. Eventually, people really won't want to come here.
      140. @L Woods

        A 30 year old serial pump and dumper is a “male” whereas a single woman his age is a “slut.”
         
        Yes, that would be correct. A+

        Yes, that would be correct. A+

        Your honesty is always much appreciated, Woods.

        Come to think of it, I kind of like having you around here. Reading your posts, the moral bankruptcy and near total lack of merit of manosphere complaints become unmistakable. Other posters have a tendency to try to put lipstick on the pig.

        • Replies: @L Woods
        Funny, but I think the same about you. Imagine that.
        , @Jim Christian
        Aw, come on, Rosie, you girls just don't like it when we men talk back to the depravity. It's ok, we understand. It's merely that the moods outrun your meds (welll, maybe not YOU, but the sisterhood). It's why Trump makes liberal women Kray-Kray-Krazy, their particular M&Ms of the Depressed ain't cutting it. But don't blame US for talking back. I take it back. Blame us, heh. Now git that lipstick out, woman!
      141. @dfordoom

        Even if not, a ‘new order’ that includes feminism isn’t worth striving for — better to let mass immigration et al finish the job.
         
        A bleak thought but substantially correct I think. There is no point in trying to save a "white race" that is totally pozzed and feminised and degenerate. Islam would be a much better option than that.

        A bleak thought but substantially correct I think. There is no point in trying to save a “white race” that is totally pozzed and feminised and degenerate. Islam would be a much better option than that.

        Can I help you pack?

      142. Can I help you pack?

        With any luck within the next 20 years Australia will be firmly in the Chinese sphere of influence. And with a bit more luck the Chinese Communist Party will crush the poz.

        I have more confidence in the Chinese Communist Party than in some mythical White Race, or in a bunch of white nationalists.

        • Replies: @L Woods
        One might hope. I fear, however, that the PRC will absorb the worst of the poz while crushing what’s left of the Anglo-Saxon liberal tradition. Only time will tell, I suppose.
      143. @Rosie

        In the meantime, don’t underestimate the wide destruction of feminism and its individual effects (divorce rape, etc) that have spawned the individuals who drive the temporary movement.
         
        What do you think can/should be done about "divorce rape"?

        Yikes, looks like the jargon-spewing scolders have begun their colonization of Unz.

        I guess it was just a matter of time. Now taking bets on whether the site will survive longer than this chick’s conspicuous resistance to miscegenation. Il bet she already fantasizes about baking brown buns in her oven.

      144. “Chinese Communist Party than in some mythical White Race, or in a bunch of white nationalists.”

        If you have issues with social control in the US and there is plenty to be concerned about —

        Then you are going to love high context control of Chinese society. Though I seriously doubt love is the term one would use.

      145. @iffen
        Her selective use of logic and evidence, which is intended to win arguments rather than get at the truth, is pretty stereotypically feminine trait.

        Since we have the green light to use stereotypes, I point out that she takes a typically feminine view toward WN ideology. Just like women went into a male dominated video game milieu and decided it need "straightening out", she stumbled into WN ideology and set about to try and remake it to suit her view.

        Rosie has said before she believes in a welfare state that transfers money from men to women, affirmative action that puts men at a disadvantage when applying for jobs and that current divorce and child support laws really favor men but two thirds of divorces are initiated by women because they are irrational and don’t understand that the divorce will favor the husband. I don’t see how a WN ideology that includes all this is going to appeal to many white males. I also don’t see how some of the more extreme anti-female remarks made by some male commenters would appeal to many white females. When nonwhites become a majority in this country, white men and white women may need to band together in self-defense so keeping the lines of communication open and not antagonizing each other so much that a future rapprochement becomes impossible might be a good idea.

        • Replies: @Anonymous
        Why?

        Someone on this blog (or some other alt-right blog) pointed out that 50% of white guys who are Gen Z will be WN, red-pill, alt-right, and MRA.

        You can't have a white supremacist ideology without also being male supremacist and hetero supremacist.

        It's obvious what the white men on this blog think about white women. Let's not pretend otherwise. If white men want a society totally comprised of straight white men, let it happen. Just don't force the rest of the world to participate in your ideology or your society.

        I'll never get within 10 ft of a black or hispanic man but if low IQ prole white women want to, I don't care. It doesn't affect me.
      146. @Rosie

        Yes, that would be correct. A+
         
        Your honesty is always much appreciated, Woods.

        Come to think of it, I kind of like having you around here. Reading your posts, the moral bankruptcy and near total lack of merit of manosphere complaints become unmistakable. Other posters have a tendency to try to put lipstick on the pig.

        Funny, but I think the same about you. Imagine that.

        • Replies: @Rosie

        Funny, but I think the same about you. Imagine that.
         
        The difference is that I actually have logical arguments from empirical evidence to support my comments here.

        You have nothing but your wounded feelings. (Some girls were mean to me, therefore my hate is justified.)
        , @Jim Christian

        Funny, but I think the same about you. Imagine that.
         
        Hey, L! I hear wedding bells, heh
      147. @dfordoom

        Can I help you pack?
         
        With any luck within the next 20 years Australia will be firmly in the Chinese sphere of influence. And with a bit more luck the Chinese Communist Party will crush the poz.

        I have more confidence in the Chinese Communist Party than in some mythical White Race, or in a bunch of white nationalists.

        One might hope. I fear, however, that the PRC will absorb the worst of the poz while crushing what’s left of the Anglo-Saxon liberal tradition. Only time will tell, I suppose.

        • Replies: @Talha
        Et tu, China?
        https://twitter.com/RitaPanahi/status/1163710117117739008

        Peace.
      148. @L Woods
        One might hope. I fear, however, that the PRC will absorb the worst of the poz while crushing what’s left of the Anglo-Saxon liberal tradition. Only time will tell, I suppose.

        Et tu, China?

        Peace.

        • Replies: @Jim Christian
        Fair take on the twit. Or is it Tweet? Twat? Huh? Calling Michael Epstein! No, wait...

        https://pbs.twimg.com/card_img/1162932018856026113/pu_TfxBh?format=jpg&name=600x314

        The Chins, they like little girls too?
      149. One might hope. I fear, however, that the PRC will absorb the worst of the poz while crushing what’s left of the Anglo-Saxon liberal tradition. Only time will tell, I suppose.

        Yes, it’s quite possible. As I’ve said before in other contexts, we no longer have any good options. The best we can hope for is to get to choose one of the less bad options. At this point my feeling is that the chances of any western government crushing the poz are close to zero. The chances of the Chinese Communist Party succeeding in doing so are slightly higher.

        The chances that we’ll end up with enough freedom to make life tolerable are not very high under the CCP but they’re marginally higher than our chances under increasingly totalitarian modern western liberal democracies.

        • Replies: @Talha
        Gotta five Piers credit for getting this right on all points:
        https://twitter.com/TPointUK/status/1163537219203862528

        Peace.
      150. @Twinkie

        A6, sometimes the F14
         
        I have a buddy who wanted to fly the Tomcat, but got the Intruder. Sad. But then he persevered and ended up with the F/A18 when the A6’s were dumped. He was so, so happy.

        Now he’s an old gunslinger for the federal government.

        I have a buddy who wanted to fly the Tomcat, but got the Intruder.

        Your buddy must not have been a Canoe U graduate. I knew officers who were AE grads from VPI with a Masters from MIT, they couldn’t get a SNIFF at a Tomcat. Guy I went to High School with was similarly educated, he got jets, but then S-3s. Heh..The others I knew were all A-6 pilots and B/Ns. And every one of em had an edge to them. Back then, most of them had been to Vietnam. The A-6 was a great plane. They lost a fairly heavy bombing capability, range and coincidentally also lost a plane (KA-6 Intruder) that could haul 26,000 pounds of fuel aloft. It cost when they retired that plane. It cost a LOT. Every facet of Naval aviation was compromised when that birdie went away with no replacement.

        • Replies: @L Woods
        It varies wildly from year to year. Today in the Air Force, just about any mouth breather is getting fighters, apparently (this will bode well for future near peer conflict no doubt).
        , @Twinkie

        Your buddy must not have been a Canoe U graduate.
         
        No, he was not.

        The A-6 was a great plane.
         
        Capability-wise, yes. But my buddy was - and is - a speed-freak. The F/A-18 was faster. And having that F at the beginning of the airplane designation meant a lot to him, I think.
      151. @L Woods
        Funny, but I think the same about you. Imagine that.

        Funny, but I think the same about you. Imagine that.

        The difference is that I actually have logical arguments from empirical evidence to support my comments here.

        You have nothing but your wounded feelings. (Some girls were mean to me, therefore my hate is justified.)

        • Replies: @L Woods
        Ahaha. Ok
      152. @Jim Christian

        I have a buddy who wanted to fly the Tomcat, but got the Intruder.
         
        Your buddy must not have been a Canoe U graduate. I knew officers who were AE grads from VPI with a Masters from MIT, they couldn't get a SNIFF at a Tomcat. Guy I went to High School with was similarly educated, he got jets, but then S-3s. Heh..The others I knew were all A-6 pilots and B/Ns. And every one of em had an edge to them. Back then, most of them had been to Vietnam. The A-6 was a great plane. They lost a fairly heavy bombing capability, range and coincidentally also lost a plane (KA-6 Intruder) that could haul 26,000 pounds of fuel aloft. It cost when they retired that plane. It cost a LOT. Every facet of Naval aviation was compromised when that birdie went away with no replacement.

        It varies wildly from year to year. Today in the Air Force, just about any mouth breather is getting fighters, apparently (this will bode well for future near peer conflict no doubt).

      153. @Rosie

        a 30 year old male can do much better than a 29 year old slut.
         
        A 30 year old serial pump and dumper is a "male" whereas a single woman his age is a "slut."

        Twinkie, I'm going to give you another opportunity to show that you are not a hypocrite.

        https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/67/Hostess-Twinkies.jpg

        Twinkie, I’m going to give you another opportunity to show that you are not a hypocrite.

        What’s with the random call out? I am not involved in whatever 1000th “men are evil” conversation you are having with everyone.

        As I mentioned already, I call for social exclusion against both men and women of loose morality.

        I won’t keep repeating it just because you have a hole in your brain.

        • Agree: 216
      154. @Rosie

        Funny, but I think the same about you. Imagine that.
         
        The difference is that I actually have logical arguments from empirical evidence to support my comments here.

        You have nothing but your wounded feelings. (Some girls were mean to me, therefore my hate is justified.)

        Ahaha. Ok

      155. @dfordoom

        One might hope. I fear, however, that the PRC will absorb the worst of the poz while crushing what’s left of the Anglo-Saxon liberal tradition. Only time will tell, I suppose.
         
        Yes, it's quite possible. As I've said before in other contexts, we no longer have any good options. The best we can hope for is to get to choose one of the less bad options. At this point my feeling is that the chances of any western government crushing the poz are close to zero. The chances of the Chinese Communist Party succeeding in doing so are slightly higher.

        The chances that we'll end up with enough freedom to make life tolerable are not very high under the CCP but they're marginally higher than our chances under increasingly totalitarian modern western liberal democracies.

        Gotta five Piers credit for getting this right on all points:

        Peace.

        • Agree: Audacious Epigone
      156. @Jim Christian

        I have a buddy who wanted to fly the Tomcat, but got the Intruder.
         
        Your buddy must not have been a Canoe U graduate. I knew officers who were AE grads from VPI with a Masters from MIT, they couldn't get a SNIFF at a Tomcat. Guy I went to High School with was similarly educated, he got jets, but then S-3s. Heh..The others I knew were all A-6 pilots and B/Ns. And every one of em had an edge to them. Back then, most of them had been to Vietnam. The A-6 was a great plane. They lost a fairly heavy bombing capability, range and coincidentally also lost a plane (KA-6 Intruder) that could haul 26,000 pounds of fuel aloft. It cost when they retired that plane. It cost a LOT. Every facet of Naval aviation was compromised when that birdie went away with no replacement.

        Your buddy must not have been a Canoe U graduate.

        No, he was not.

        The A-6 was a great plane.

        Capability-wise, yes. But my buddy was – and is – a speed-freak. The F/A-18 was faster. And having that F at the beginning of the airplane designation meant a lot to him, I think.

      157. @Feryl
        Empires are often deeply in denial about their looming collapse, at least among the elite class (whereas proles in the German, or British, Or American empire can just feel the economic and social corrosion that marks the dying phase of an empire).

        I've done it before, but I might as well do it again: for the most part (ya know, not including the Civil War) the US built itself up in every way imaginable from it's initial settlement by the Brits through the early 60's. Then, well, we know what happened. The 1964 Civil Rights Act. The Tet Offensive in '68. Nixon being framed by the CIA shortly after he easily won re-election in 1972. Reagan giving the go-ahead to elite decadence by gutting their tax burden in 1981. GHW Bush and Clinton giving us NAFTA in 1993. The obscene orgy of Wall Street speculation that occurred from the mid-90's-mid 2000's, under Clinton and Bush. "Iraq has nukes" from Bush in 2003. Obama failing to punish any major players after the 2008 melt-down. Trump winning an election in 2016 by promising to build a wall, and then stabbing Americans in the back by doing more to promote the security of Israel.

        There was an internal battle in the Reagan administration between the old style Eisenhower Republicans like David Stockman who wanted balanced budgets and low spending and another group that wanted big tax cuts for the rich and increased defense spending that, when combined together, would lead to large deficits. The Eisenhower Republicans lost. Some advocates of big tax cuts even claimed that they would not result in reduced tax revenues and budget deficits. The first Bush memorably called this “voodoo economics”. To get the increased defense spending, the Republicans engaged in political logrolling where they gave the Democrats increased domestic spending in exchange. It may be hard to believe, but defense spending in constant dollars is double now what it was at the height of the cold war in the fifties. Eisenhower, who knew a few things about the military, thought that was enough.

        • Replies: @Feryl
        The biggest embarrassment of the neo-lib era is that the dominant party (the GOP) has monumentally failed to rein in big government; in fact, when the Dems set the tone (in the 1930's-1970's) the government was much more responsibly run. Of course, the modern worthless GOP makes excuse after excuse that the "liberals" won't let them win. The whole situation is a major pork-fest, where profits and stock options come before consideration of long-term outcomes WRT sound government and popular well-being.

        As you say, in the 80's we weren't yet culturally brain-dead enough to have entire administrations totally out of touch with sound governance. That would begin with GHW Bush, and has not changed with Obama or Trump.
        , @Twinkie

        Some advocates of big tax cuts even claimed that they would not result in reduced tax revenues
         
        They were right about reducing the capital gains tax. After the cut, CGT revenues for the government increased.
      158. @dfordoom

        You make it sound as if it weren’t for white liberals, negros, jews, arabs, mestizos, and east asians would fit in perfectly fine.

        White liberals can only ruin something if they’re allowed to. Keeping the identity pawns out of the place goes a long way towards that.
         
        My point was that white liberals will take steps to ensure that those identity pawns are not kept out of the place. As long as you have white liberals you will get diversity.

        It's the white liberals who are the root cause of the problem. They are the root cause of all our problems.

        I’d amend your description to say “postgraduate white liberals”. If liberalism was mainly a low class phenomenon, it wouldn’t have the nation-wrecking power, it would just be an occassional irritant of either/or labor unions and secularism.

        We have a situation where the culture industry is entirely dominated by left-liberals, and conservatives are either not represented or actively excluded.

        IMO, I don’t hold liberals entirely responsible for this. Cons are very ineffective at boycotts, and they furthermore have never obstructed liberals from assuming positions of influence in ostensibly conservative movements.

        Would it kill the typical boomercon to cut out sportsball? No, but they engage in the male hamster whenever anyone points it out.

        • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
        That's an original meme from our humble outpost at 11 seconds in.

        Is this Ryan Faulk or Sean Last or someone else from the Alt Hype?
      159. @dfordoom

        You make it sound as if it weren’t for white liberals, negros, jews, arabs, mestizos, and east asians would fit in perfectly fine.

        White liberals can only ruin something if they’re allowed to. Keeping the identity pawns out of the place goes a long way towards that.
         
        My point was that white liberals will take steps to ensure that those identity pawns are not kept out of the place. As long as you have white liberals you will get diversity.

        It's the white liberals who are the root cause of the problem. They are the root cause of all our problems.

        “My point was that white liberals will take steps to ensure that those identity pawns are not kept out of the place. As long as you have white liberals you will get diversity.”

        And my point is: only if they are allowed to. They’ve been allowed to. This what The ZBlog refers to as Buckley Conservatism: Basically making small concessions to every leftist demand until the next thing you know The National Review is making the conservative case for underage transsexual marriages between aborted fetuses.

        “It’s the white liberals who are the root cause of the problem. They are the root cause of all our problems.”

        They aren’t the root cause of the Federal Reserve, endless middle eastern wars, the Frankfurt School, Hollywood propaganda, crony capitalism/corporate welfare, Wall Street corruption, banking cartels, usury, or cultural Marxism.

        White liberals are merely whites who were most successfully indoctrinated into hating themselves and their own kind. They continue to advance and promote that indoctrination but they aren’t the root cause of it.

        • Replies: @dfordoom

        White liberals are merely whites who were most successfully indoctrinated into hating themselves and their own kind. They continue to advance and promote that indoctrination but they aren’t the root cause of it.
         
        Is that because white people have no agency? They're just overgrown children? Nothing is their fault.

        That's the way little kids think.

        First step in being a grown-up - take some responsibility.
        , @Audacious Epigone
        the next thing you know The National Review is making the conservative case for underage transsexual marriages between aborted fetuses.

        Pure gold.
      160. o/t

        Will the “Free Speech Absolutists” of the Intellectual Dark Web show up here???

        I guaruntee they’d demand sanctions if this was their Israeli flag being banned.

      161. “I guaruntee they’d demand sanctions if this was their Israeli flag being banned.”

        This is hard for me —–

        But you have no idea what it was that South African ruling elite of old did to its population or you wouldn’t be so cavalier.

        • Replies: @216
        I don't care about your feelings, because you don't care about my self-determination

        Nelson Mandela condoned torture and glorified the death of white conscripts.
      162. @EliteCommInc.
        "I guaruntee they’d demand sanctions if this was their Israeli flag being banned."


        This is hard for me -----

        But you have no idea what it was that South African ruling elite of old did to its population or you wouldn't be so cavalier.

        I don’t care about your feelings, because you don’t care about my self-determination

        Nelson Mandela condoned torture and glorified the death of white conscripts.

        • Agree: Audacious Epigone
        • Replies: @MikeatMikedotMike
        I'm not sure why you and others even bother with him. The ignore commenter button exists for a reason.
      163. @Mark G.
        There was an internal battle in the Reagan administration between the old style Eisenhower Republicans like David Stockman who wanted balanced budgets and low spending and another group that wanted big tax cuts for the rich and increased defense spending that, when combined together, would lead to large deficits. The Eisenhower Republicans lost. Some advocates of big tax cuts even claimed that they would not result in reduced tax revenues and budget deficits. The first Bush memorably called this "voodoo economics". To get the increased defense spending, the Republicans engaged in political logrolling where they gave the Democrats increased domestic spending in exchange. It may be hard to believe, but defense spending in constant dollars is double now what it was at the height of the cold war in the fifties. Eisenhower, who knew a few things about the military, thought that was enough.

        The biggest embarrassment of the neo-lib era is that the dominant party (the GOP) has monumentally failed to rein in big government; in fact, when the Dems set the tone (in the 1930’s-1970’s) the government was much more responsibly run. Of course, the modern worthless GOP makes excuse after excuse that the “liberals” won’t let them win. The whole situation is a major pork-fest, where profits and stock options come before consideration of long-term outcomes WRT sound government and popular well-being.

        As you say, in the 80’s we weren’t yet culturally brain-dead enough to have entire administrations totally out of touch with sound governance. That would begin with GHW Bush, and has not changed with Obama or Trump.

      164. @Mark G.
        There was an internal battle in the Reagan administration between the old style Eisenhower Republicans like David Stockman who wanted balanced budgets and low spending and another group that wanted big tax cuts for the rich and increased defense spending that, when combined together, would lead to large deficits. The Eisenhower Republicans lost. Some advocates of big tax cuts even claimed that they would not result in reduced tax revenues and budget deficits. The first Bush memorably called this "voodoo economics". To get the increased defense spending, the Republicans engaged in political logrolling where they gave the Democrats increased domestic spending in exchange. It may be hard to believe, but defense spending in constant dollars is double now what it was at the height of the cold war in the fifties. Eisenhower, who knew a few things about the military, thought that was enough.

        Some advocates of big tax cuts even claimed that they would not result in reduced tax revenues

        They were right about reducing the capital gains tax. After the cut, CGT revenues for the government increased.

      165. “Nelson Mandela condoned torture and glorified the death of white conscripts.”

        What President Mandela did was to make a choice to fight. And that was in response to a fight he was handed. He later made a different choice.

        And how feel has nothing to do with what occurred in SA. You cannot claim to represent the people of a country if you engage in treating the majority as cattle — or less than human. And SA a nation boasting of Christian values —–

        unsupportable even in their time by their standards.

        My feelings . . . feelings are the last thing anyone would suggest I have.

        Laugh

        — though I do laugh a lot.

        https://buzzsouthafrica.com/south-african-apartheid/

        https://www.thoughtco.com/brief-history-of-south-african-apartheid-2834606

        My feelings . . . are noting it is the data.

        • Replies: @216

        And how feel has nothing to do with what occurred in SA. You cannot claim to represent the people of a country if you engage in treating the majority as cattle — or less than human. And SA a nation boasting of Christian values —–
         
        For whites, present-day South Africa is a dictatorship no different than what Tibetans or Uighurs are getting in China. The pretense of elections are meaningless when one party always wins.

        The present government has presided over far-higher levels of violence than the apartheid government.

        The time has come for sanctions, if not invasion. The Afrikaner are just as entitled to self-determination as Zionists, arguably if not moreso.
      166. @216
        I don't care about your feelings, because you don't care about my self-determination

        Nelson Mandela condoned torture and glorified the death of white conscripts.

        I’m not sure why you and others even bother with him. The ignore commenter button exists for a reason.

      167. Correction: My feelings have nothing to do with it.

        As for Mr. Mandella to Pres Mandella . . .

        The founders of the US started a war for less. And your comments make it clear that you don’t comprehend self determination or at least you comprehend it as a right for some not others. Had the South Africans in authority respected “self determination” they would have handed the country back the native population or at the very least asked whether they approved of the leadership in question such as to participate.

        Based on the evidence of conduct, there is someone here acting emotionally. And I don’t think it is me. I expressly stated my position in relation to the conduct of the leadership —-

        not at all about how I felt.

        And it is your emotions that blind you to a simple truth — Israel and SA, those in power were very much in agreement in their day.

        https://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/may/23/israel-south-africa-nuclear-weapons

        • Replies: @216
        I will not accept your leftsplaining.

        My country fought two world wars on that premise of self-determination. Only for it to be denied to us today. It is not a "by liberals, for liberals, only liberals" concept that you seem to think it is.

        The tendency in Africa for nations to become independent, and at the same time to do justice to all, does not only mean being just to the black man of Africa, but also to be just to the white man of Africa.
         
        It is mathematically impossible for whites to vote out the ANC, or for that matter the Democrats in New York and California, or Labour in London.

        So-called "minority rights" are not accorded to the global minority of whites.

        It affronts you as a black man that your civilization has produced ruin in place of the promised multicultural utopia.

        Why not try owning the shame?
        , @Audacious Epigone
        Handed back? White South Africans were there before black Africans (Bantus, essentially) were. The few H&G clickers who were there before whites like the whites more than they like the blacks, a dynamic that has continued to exist all the way through to the present day.
      168. 216 says: • Website
        @EliteCommInc.
        "Nelson Mandela condoned torture and glorified the death of white conscripts."

        What President Mandela did was to make a choice to fight. And that was in response to a fight he was handed. He later made a different choice.

        And how feel has nothing to do with what occurred in SA. You cannot claim to represent the people of a country if you engage in treating the majority as cattle -- or less than human. And SA a nation boasting of Christian values -----

        unsupportable even in their time by their standards.

        My feelings . . . feelings are the last thing anyone would suggest I have.

        Laugh


        -- though I do laugh a lot.


        https://buzzsouthafrica.com/south-african-apartheid/

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_jpo1rQA5Y

        https://www.thoughtco.com/brief-history-of-south-african-apartheid-2834606

        My feelings . . . are noting it is the data.

        And how feel has nothing to do with what occurred in SA. You cannot claim to represent the people of a country if you engage in treating the majority as cattle — or less than human. And SA a nation boasting of Christian values —–

        For whites, present-day South Africa is a dictatorship no different than what Tibetans or Uighurs are getting in China. The pretense of elections are meaningless when one party always wins.

        The present government has presided over far-higher levels of violence than the apartheid government.

        The time has come for sanctions, if not invasion. The Afrikaner are just as entitled to self-determination as Zionists, arguably if not moreso.

      169. 216 says: • Website
        @EliteCommInc.
        Correction: My feelings have nothing to do with it.

        As for Mr. Mandella to Pres Mandella . . .

        The founders of the US started a war for less. And your comments make it clear that you don't comprehend self determination or at least you comprehend it as a right for some not others. Had the South Africans in authority respected "self determination" they would have handed the country back the native population or at the very least asked whether they approved of the leadership in question such as to participate.

        Based on the evidence of conduct, there is someone here acting emotionally. And I don't think it is me. I expressly stated my position in relation to the conduct of the leadership ----

        not at all about how I felt.

        And it is your emotions that blind you to a simple truth -- Israel and SA, those in power were very much in agreement in their day.

        https://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/may/23/israel-south-africa-nuclear-weapons

        I will not accept your leftsplaining.

        My country fought two world wars on that premise of self-determination. Only for it to be denied to us today. It is not a “by liberals, for liberals, only liberals” concept that you seem to think it is.

        The tendency in Africa for nations to become independent, and at the same time to do justice to all, does not only mean being just to the black man of Africa, but also to be just to the white man of Africa.

        It is mathematically impossible for whites to vote out the ANC, or for that matter the Democrats in New York and California, or Labour in London.

        So-called “minority rights” are not accorded to the global minority of whites.

        It affronts you as a black man that your civilization has produced ruin in place of the promised multicultural utopia.

        Why not try owning the shame?

      170. @Dacian Julien Soros
        The whole "stop coming to our lands, you are ruining it" implies that there is something to ruin.

        Every time you say "stop coming to our land" you should add "it already sucks for a majority of us, and it failed a majority of our fathers and grandfathers; statistically, you are likely to be screwed at least as hard as our paupers".

        In fact, you should lie about how shit life is in the West, in order to compensate for the decades of state-paid and oligarch-paid propaganda coming from your side.

        Five million Romanians have left. Thousands live under the bridges of London, but would not return, because the BBC tells them daily that Romania is corrupt, and UK is not. Thousand sleep in German parks because DW tells them Romanian social security net is not working, whereas the German one is still holding.The BBC and DW, and their relays in Romanian press don't do enough to explain that the famous British anticorruption effort does not extend to slum landlords, and the famous Hartz IV welfare system does not cover people with German residence.

        You need to make it clear to the poor that they will stay poor, that current Western states can't help their own poor, and will definitely fail foreign poor people. You need to help closing down BBC World Service, DW, RFE.

        You need to stop Soroses of the world from infesting poorer lands with his activists for Open Society. Just like, in theory, US jurisdiction extends to the whole planet, when it comes to bribing governments, just like foreign agents are impeded when they interfere in US elections, Americans must stop state-owned and oligarch-owned propaganda from going overseas.

        You personally need to stop claiming US is better than Somalia. You should make it clear that US / UK / Germany work for a few, and fail their majority. Even Guatemala / Somalia / Romania work for a few. Neither of these is good at turning the poor into middle class. Once currency is accepted, there is no superior system. Market economy, centralized socialism, and pure anarchy are the same. You can't change your fate by changing countries; in fact, you have a better chance to sleep under a bridge if you move.

        Focus on those, and the tide will stop. It's not comfortable for me to be told daily that our country sucks, often by people paid to say so and / or by SOBs who didn't live in more than one place.

        Interesting. It’s hard to compete with the entertainment industry + social media, but it’s not that disingenuous, and it becomes more sincere by the day. Eventually, people really won’t want to come here.

      171. “I will not accept your leftsplaining.

        My country fought two world wars on that premise of self-determination. Only for it to be denied to us today. It is not a “by liberals, for liberals, only liberals” concept that you seem to think it is.”

        What nonsense. Acknowledging what apartheid was and what it did has nothing to do with being on the left. Trust me — you don’t come close to being a conservative. The issue is why they banned the flag. They banned it because it failed to represent all of the people. It’s that simple. No leaning to the left required.

        Your straw man is pitch is nonsense. The relevant question is why Nelson Mandella took up arms against SA – for a very simple reason and they extend to far more harm against the population than the founders of the US experienced. That said, in colonial revolutionary world I would be a Tory.

        What Nelson Mandella did in fighting SA apartheid was no less than the founders and in direct response to the violence by the SA government. It’s rather obtuse to spout commentary about self determination and miss the point that apartheid violated the very meaning of the term. name calling won’;t rescue your contradiction here. Neither will whining about about what your country did —

        I would set you to task on the role of the US in both world wars, while important, in reality we came in at a time when Germany was on the wane. Our lend lease was invaluable in that effort. Our combat was certainly helpful in the Atlantic. But Germany was done the day she opened a second front. Our entry was insurance.

        Nevermind the issue of westerners so incapable of self control and managerial skills that it took Two World wars to bring about some sanity and even then — it continued.

        But to the central issue. The flag was banned because it failed to represent the population in full. And your bizarre response just belies the matter. The whites claiming democratic representative government that they were afraid they could muster enough saliance in argument to make a case for governance. That assumes of course that you predicate the matter soley on skin color and not intelligence, character, or other salient factors. So, you grant out that despite the prognostications of democracy and high moral fiber

        Whites in SA were too scared to stand on principle so they engaged in gaming the system by way of power dynamics. Which explain a good deal about why our western societies are responsible for so much death and destruction. The lack the ability to truth their own moral code while at the same time claiming the moral high ground. Now having spent five hundred engaging that hyprocrisy, modeling that hyprocrisy — and behavior noting the way things get done

        Some are shocked, shocked that blacks have responded not in kind, there are no laws entreating whites as second class or less. The government of SA is not rounding up whites for political opposition . . . murdering them in their sleep . . . certainly not en masse as the SA government engaged. The data has nothing to do with liberal thinking. At the core of conservative ethos is the matter of truth and the truth is as history tells us and you confirm

        whites didn’t trust the system they claimed existed for all and worse were afraid to act with courage and rely on argument as opposed to force. instead we get this — assumption false assumption whine —

        “they won’t vote for me because of my skin color”

        Yet the history of blacks across the planet indicates otherwise that on a level playing field they have been quite open to hearing what the other fellow proposes.

        But one has to brave enough to abide the rules, and have the integrity to avoid the hypocrisy you so plainly attempt to defend. maybe the power structure should have given their moral high ground a chance. Media failing is an apt description of your grasp of SA as it existed in reality as opposed to the self serving refrain of self determination.

        Good grief . . .

        Speaking of emotional blinders.

        • Replies: @216

        The issue is why they banned the flag. They banned it because it failed to represent all of the people. It’s that simple. No leaning to the left required.
         
        "All the people"

        Apparently white conservatives are not the people, until it comes time to pay taxes

        But good luck defending the Gangster State
      172. “So-called “minority rights” are not accorded to the global minority of whites.

        It affronts you as a black man that your civilization has produced ruin in place of the promised multicultural utopia.

        Why not try owning the shame?”

        Ahh there’s the response of an unemotional thoughtful rhetorical response —- the color card.

        Laughing. My color is totally irrelevant in this discussion. I am a US citizen. Our discussion was about the power dynamics. You turned it into a tirade about whites incapable of wining a fair election, by not providing a fair election. Now i don’t care what skin tone you are — your rationale on this issue hypocrisy and self defeating as it gets.

        If I were black, I would simply note that before today there were a myriad of black civilizations that governed and waned as civilizations across the globe do. That’s just the history of humanity. If i were white I would be ashamed to defend hypocrisy in ethics and I might even be ashamed that my people seem incapable of criticism with turning matters on some superficial personal afront about what another person should feel — noting that it is you who who seems hurt, and dismayed that anyone would challenge you social understanding of apartheid in practice. I might ask myself why my white skin means so much when it has destroyed so much of the beauty it was supposed to create. I might even be embarrassed that i deliberate ignore that knowledge doesn’t exist in a vacuum and that without the volumes of knowledge criss crossing the globe – no less due to empires, including black empires that might have squashed notions of self determination because they invite diversity and some forms of diversity that might actually end my empire — though skin color would be among the least of these as it is benign.

        If I laid claim to whiteness as uniquely salient I would be ashamed that people such as yourself represent any real manner of intelligent thinking on matters of human civilization based on your comments here.

        But at the end of the day — you seem capable of only playing the color card and that you play poorly.

        ———————–

        “The present government has presided over far-higher levels of violence than the apartheid government. The time has come for sanctions, if not invasion. The Afrikaner are just as entitled to self-determination as Zionists, arguably if not moreso.”

        Wrong on all counts. But I am going to stay where I came in — SA governance exacted, called for, condoned and engaged in that violence. The SA of today is not in any manner so inclined.

        I am curious — you seem to have lost your lean on self determination —- you realize that the reason that SA changed its policy is because it was losing. Hopefully you are aware enough to grasp that. They preferred a softer landing than what might have awaited them otherwise.

        • Replies: @216

        The SA of today is not in any manner so inclined.
         
        The current South African Vice President ran a death squad as Governor.

        I am curious — you seem to have lost your lean on self determination —- you realize that the reason that SA changed its policy is because it was losing. Hopefully you are aware enough to grasp that. They preferred a softer landing than what might have awaited them otherwise.
         
        I'm not writing the apology for apartheid. My aim is to demand self-determination in the present day for a powerless minority. A similar precedent was set in Kosovo.

        I would disagree on the interpretation of the historical course of the negotiations. I would allege bribery of De Klerk and the Cabinet, who for what it is worth lied to the electorate and promised power sharing.

        It's also nice of you to admit that the morally superior liberalism isn't above using genocide to get what it wants, Jacobins never change.
      173. 216 says: • Website
        @EliteCommInc.
        "I will not accept your leftsplaining.

        My country fought two world wars on that premise of self-determination. Only for it to be denied to us today. It is not a “by liberals, for liberals, only liberals” concept that you seem to think it is."

        What nonsense. Acknowledging what apartheid was and what it did has nothing to do with being on the left. Trust me -- you don't come close to being a conservative. The issue is why they banned the flag. They banned it because it failed to represent all of the people. It's that simple. No leaning to the left required.

        Your straw man is pitch is nonsense. The relevant question is why Nelson Mandella took up arms against SA - for a very simple reason and they extend to far more harm against the population than the founders of the US experienced. That said, in colonial revolutionary world I would be a Tory.

        What Nelson Mandella did in fighting SA apartheid was no less than the founders and in direct response to the violence by the SA government. It's rather obtuse to spout commentary about self determination and miss the point that apartheid violated the very meaning of the term. name calling won';t rescue your contradiction here. Neither will whining about about what your country did ---

        I would set you to task on the role of the US in both world wars, while important, in reality we came in at a time when Germany was on the wane. Our lend lease was invaluable in that effort. Our combat was certainly helpful in the Atlantic. But Germany was done the day she opened a second front. Our entry was insurance.

        Nevermind the issue of westerners so incapable of self control and managerial skills that it took Two World wars to bring about some sanity and even then --- it continued.

        But to the central issue. The flag was banned because it failed to represent the population in full. And your bizarre response just belies the matter. The whites claiming democratic representative government that they were afraid they could muster enough saliance in argument to make a case for governance. That assumes of course that you predicate the matter soley on skin color and not intelligence, character, or other salient factors. So, you grant out that despite the prognostications of democracy and high moral fiber

        Whites in SA were too scared to stand on principle so they engaged in gaming the system by way of power dynamics. Which explain a good deal about why our western societies are responsible for so much death and destruction. The lack the ability to truth their own moral code while at the same time claiming the moral high ground. Now having spent five hundred engaging that hyprocrisy, modeling that hyprocrisy -- and behavior noting the way things get done


        Some are shocked, shocked that blacks have responded not in kind, there are no laws entreating whites as second class or less. The government of SA is not rounding up whites for political opposition . . . murdering them in their sleep . . . certainly not en masse as the SA government engaged. The data has nothing to do with liberal thinking. At the core of conservative ethos is the matter of truth and the truth is as history tells us and you confirm

        whites didn't trust the system they claimed existed for all and worse were afraid to act with courage and rely on argument as opposed to force. instead we get this --- assumption false assumption whine --

        "they won't vote for me because of my skin color"

        Yet the history of blacks across the planet indicates otherwise that on a level playing field they have been quite open to hearing what the other fellow proposes.

        But one has to brave enough to abide the rules, and have the integrity to avoid the hypocrisy you so plainly attempt to defend. maybe the power structure should have given their moral high ground a chance. Media failing is an apt description of your grasp of SA as it existed in reality as opposed to the self serving refrain of self determination.

        Good grief . . .

        Speaking of emotional blinders.

        The issue is why they banned the flag. They banned it because it failed to represent all of the people. It’s that simple. No leaning to the left required.

        “All the people”

        Apparently white conservatives are not the people, until it comes time to pay taxes

        But good luck defending the Gangster State

      174. @Talha
        Et tu, China?
        https://twitter.com/RitaPanahi/status/1163710117117739008

        Peace.

        Fair take on the twit. Or is it Tweet? Twat? Huh? Calling Michael Epstein! No, wait…

        https://pbs.twimg.com/card_img/1162932018856026113/pu_TfxBh?format=jpg&name=600×314

        The Chins, they like little girls too?

        • Replies: @Talha

        The Chins, they like little girls too?
         
        I'm guessing with enough propaganda being blasted to them day and night, you can convince any set of people that they even like little trans-girls...and then shame them for being discriminatory if they object.

        Peace.
      175. @Rosie

        Yes, that would be correct. A+
         
        Your honesty is always much appreciated, Woods.

        Come to think of it, I kind of like having you around here. Reading your posts, the moral bankruptcy and near total lack of merit of manosphere complaints become unmistakable. Other posters have a tendency to try to put lipstick on the pig.

        Aw, come on, Rosie, you girls just don’t like it when we men talk back to the depravity. It’s ok, we understand. It’s merely that the moods outrun your meds (welll, maybe not YOU, but the sisterhood). It’s why Trump makes liberal women Kray-Kray-Krazy, their particular M&Ms of the Depressed ain’t cutting it. But don’t blame US for talking back. I take it back. Blame us, heh. Now git that lipstick out, woman!

      176. @L Woods
        Funny, but I think the same about you. Imagine that.

        Funny, but I think the same about you. Imagine that.

        Hey, L! I hear wedding bells, heh

      177. 216 says: • Website
        @EliteCommInc.
        "So-called “minority rights” are not accorded to the global minority of whites.

        It affronts you as a black man that your civilization has produced ruin in place of the promised multicultural utopia.

        Why not try owning the shame?"


        Ahh there's the response of an unemotional thoughtful rhetorical response ---- the color card.


        Laughing. My color is totally irrelevant in this discussion. I am a US citizen. Our discussion was about the power dynamics. You turned it into a tirade about whites incapable of wining a fair election, by not providing a fair election. Now i don't care what skin tone you are -- your rationale on this issue hypocrisy and self defeating as it gets.

        If I were black, I would simply note that before today there were a myriad of black civilizations that governed and waned as civilizations across the globe do. That's just the history of humanity. If i were white I would be ashamed to defend hypocrisy in ethics and I might even be ashamed that my people seem incapable of criticism with turning matters on some superficial personal afront about what another person should feel --- noting that it is you who who seems hurt, and dismayed that anyone would challenge you social understanding of apartheid in practice. I might ask myself why my white skin means so much when it has destroyed so much of the beauty it was supposed to create. I might even be embarrassed that i deliberate ignore that knowledge doesn't exist in a vacuum and that without the volumes of knowledge criss crossing the globe - no less due to empires, including black empires that might have squashed notions of self determination because they invite diversity and some forms of diversity that might actually end my empire -- though skin color would be among the least of these as it is benign.

        If I laid claim to whiteness as uniquely salient I would be ashamed that people such as yourself represent any real manner of intelligent thinking on matters of human civilization based on your comments here.

        But at the end of the day --- you seem capable of only playing the color card and that you play poorly.

        -----------------------

        "The present government has presided over far-higher levels of violence than the apartheid government. The time has come for sanctions, if not invasion. The Afrikaner are just as entitled to self-determination as Zionists, arguably if not moreso."

        Wrong on all counts. But I am going to stay where I came in -- SA governance exacted, called for, condoned and engaged in that violence. The SA of today is not in any manner so inclined.


        I am curious -- you seem to have lost your lean on self determination ---- you realize that the reason that SA changed its policy is because it was losing. Hopefully you are aware enough to grasp that. They preferred a softer landing than what might have awaited them otherwise.

        The SA of today is not in any manner so inclined.

        The current South African Vice President ran a death squad as Governor.

        I am curious — you seem to have lost your lean on self determination —- you realize that the reason that SA changed its policy is because it was losing. Hopefully you are aware enough to grasp that. They preferred a softer landing than what might have awaited them otherwise.

        I’m not writing the apology for apartheid. My aim is to demand self-determination in the present day for a powerless minority. A similar precedent was set in Kosovo.

        I would disagree on the interpretation of the historical course of the negotiations. I would allege bribery of De Klerk and the Cabinet, who for what it is worth lied to the electorate and promised power sharing.

        It’s also nice of you to admit that the morally superior liberalism isn’t above using genocide to get what it wants, Jacobins never change.

      178. @Jim Christian
        Fair take on the twit. Or is it Tweet? Twat? Huh? Calling Michael Epstein! No, wait...

        https://pbs.twimg.com/card_img/1162932018856026113/pu_TfxBh?format=jpg&name=600x314

        The Chins, they like little girls too?

        The Chins, they like little girls too?

        I’m guessing with enough propaganda being blasted to them day and night, you can convince any set of people that they even like little trans-girls…and then shame them for being discriminatory if they object.

        Peace.

      179. @MikeatMikedotMike
        "My point was that white liberals will take steps to ensure that those identity pawns are not kept out of the place. As long as you have white liberals you will get diversity."

        And my point is: only if they are allowed to. They've been allowed to. This what The ZBlog refers to as Buckley Conservatism: Basically making small concessions to every leftist demand until the next thing you know The National Review is making the conservative case for underage transsexual marriages between aborted fetuses.

        "It’s the white liberals who are the root cause of the problem. They are the root cause of all our problems."

        They aren't the root cause of the Federal Reserve, endless middle eastern wars, the Frankfurt School, Hollywood propaganda, crony capitalism/corporate welfare, Wall Street corruption, banking cartels, usury, or cultural Marxism.

        White liberals are merely whites who were most successfully indoctrinated into hating themselves and their own kind. They continue to advance and promote that indoctrination but they aren't the root cause of it.

        White liberals are merely whites who were most successfully indoctrinated into hating themselves and their own kind. They continue to advance and promote that indoctrination but they aren’t the root cause of it.

        Is that because white people have no agency? They’re just overgrown children? Nothing is their fault.

        That’s the way little kids think.

        First step in being a grown-up – take some responsibility.

        • Replies: @MikeatMikedotMike
        Amusing that you would talk about being a grown up right after dropping that silly straw man. Whites are pretty much the only people in the US with any agency, pal.

        If you can actually back up YOUR statement that white liberals are the root of all things bad, or at least refute that examples that I provided, then we might have an adult conversation. Otherwise, speaking in absolutist terms like "white liberals are the root of all problems" is the most childish thing said so far in this thread.


        The saddest thing about you and a lot of the others here in AE's commentariate, is that you still think political ideology trumps race. It doesn't. I'll take the liberal whites over whatever "conservative" POC you can muster up. Most liberal whites still work. They pay taxes. They can function in Western society. Most importantly, they breed white children. Less than we need sure, but with proper rearing and education, liberal whites' children can be taught to respect and appreciate and take pride in their heritage, culture, and future. They can be taught to work in their own self interests and not be made to feel evil about it.
      180. @Audacious Epigone
        Some people just want to watch the world burn.

        No just the opposite…However, at this point in time the only way to motivate our fellow White Folk is through fear…..Which is probably how and why the Vietnam War ended:FEAR OF THE DRAFT….

        It’s not like what I have written is a low probability event….

        But my point hits on the rock bottom fundamental issue:How WE talk to our fellow Native White Folks about the GREAT REPLACEMENT….

        So what is the fundamental question that we should be asking our fellow Native Born White Americans?

        Answer:Just what are you willing to give up for being a White Racial Minority in post-White Toilet America?…….I wish the Alt Right and Richard Spencer had done this from day one in all of his public talks

      181. “The current South African Vice President ran a death squad as Governor.”

        Matamela Cyril Ramaphosa, President Of South Africa is affiliated with one incident and the record clearly indicates he had no role in the events that follow, not even nominal as to the incident.

        “On August 16, 2012, the police fired shots at a gathering of striking Lonmin workers on a “koppie” (hilltop) near Nkaneng shack settlement in Marikana. Thirty-four miners were killed in the shooting and seventy-eight others were injured. It was later revealed that most of the victims were shot in the back and far from the police line. Dubbed as the “Marikana Massacre” by the media, it was the single most lethal act of institutional violence since the end of the apartheid era and caused national outrage.

        It was revealed later that Ramaphosa, who was a Lonmin shareholder, had been solicited by the company’s management to organize “concomitant action” against “criminal” protesters. As a result, many saw him as the person responsible for the massacre. However, it was ultimately concluded that as the deaths had already occurred, his intervention was not the reason for the increased police presence on site.”

        https://www.thefamouspeople.com/profiles/cyril-ramaphosa-11821.php

        There is no record of participation at any level of a “hit squad.”

        More importantly as with so many of your responses. It has nothing to do with a state sponsored policy of kidnapping, torture and murder as practiced by the government of SA under apartheid. Are there reprisals against some whites by some number of blacks — there are in my view. But there is no indication the government of SA is supporting this conduct. And the much touted attacks by blacks against farmers has little to do with politics it is part of the criminal enterprise that has always targeted the farming community.

        —————————–

        ““All the people”
        Apparently white conservatives are not the people, until it comes time to pay taxes
        But good luck defending the Gangster State”

        Another series of disjointed contends.

        a. The banning of the flag reflects an ethic of a new start that in all inclusive of all south africans. Unlike what took place under apartheid under the old flag. Which essentially endorsed apartheid and ll that came with it.

        b. No. when you made the case for self determination you were not only defending apartheid

        c. you endorsed it a means of self preservation under an umbrella for self determination, In this case soley white self preservation as opposed to a system that embraced all SA peoples,. hence cause to ban the flag. Have the courage to own what you stand for based on your comments on the record. it is a mighty hollow complaint about “protecting all the people” after your assail that included a policy of whites ignoring democracy because they assumed that they would be outvoted based on color.

        1. they were to afraid to put their democracy to the test
        2. hid their cowardice behind the use of force, including, bit not limited to, extensive use of death squads to silence political opposition
        3. disqualification based not on character, intelligence or ability but skin color. The death squads and other means dealt with the knowledge, skill and intel to engage in the political sphere.
        4. turned even the bible and Jesus on their heads to justify the system.

        After all that we now know about SA, you have the audacity to call the current system a “gangster state”. There simply is no comparison between the two systems – hence a new flag and a ban on the old. You have done far more than write defense of that system – You adamantly defended hypocrisy. There’s no sliding out of that matter. Furthermore, you made irrelevant accusations about me with one purpose in mind — to humiliate. Hint, go after my failure to diligent proof read or some other mechanics. Speculating about my skin color is not only bizarre and irrelevant to our issue of discussion, its a reminder that the color card — is instilled in the birth of the country and as such — no escapes it, especially true for black citizens.

        You make comments about Nelson Mandella’s response to a violent system, that our founders could not even have imagined and attempt to indict at the same time you boast about the US engaging two wars only one of which actually involved them by way being attacked. Its relevance to Pres. Mandella, apartheid of the flag remains a mystery. By fairly strong implication you imply that the US was the only player in WWII, I am quite sure that you were not suggesting that whites alone did the fighting as history makes clear a lot of colors get dragged into western messes of conflict.

        At no time in our discussion did I ever suggest that I support the denial of anyone’s rights anywhere as citizens of the country in which they live. That is an assumption you seem to be making up in your own head. But what you did do was make it abundantly clear that the previous flag represented “whites” and in your further reference the flag of white conservatives and they should be allowed to keep it as part of their self determination. In other words, you prefer the apartheid system for all South Africans, that is what the flag represents.

        https://fromua.news/article/5677563/South-African-court-partially-bans-display-of-apartheid-flag/

        https://www.wftv.com/news/national-news/ap-top-news/south-african-court-restricts-display-of-apartheidera-flag/978007275

        Note that people are permitted to fly the flag in their private spaces, as i understand the restrictions.

        There is absolutely nothing morally superior in acknowledging data. Nor is it liberal. And at no time have advanced myself as morally superior — another irrelevant add in. As are suggestions that I promote genocide of anyone. I am afraid your own comments reflect a closer advocacy in that direction. I rarely even kill ants if I can avoid it.

        And it is clear by your reference to Jacobin that you are unfamiliar with what they represent and again is another nonsensical add on. And again, it was more representative of an apartheid SA than anything remote relavent to my practice or way of thinking. They make reckless unsupportable accusations and then proceed to act on the very same, ignoring counter data because it gets in the way of their agenda. Here’s a Jacobin tactic.

        “Every black South African was designated as a citizen as one of the Bantustans, a system that supposedly gave them full political rights, but effectively removed them from the nation’s political body.”

        “In one of the most devastating aspects of apartheid, the government forcibly removed black South Africans from rural areas designated as “white” to the homelands, and sold their land at low prices to white farmers. From 1961 to 1994, more than 3.5 million people were forcibly removed from their homes and deposited in the Bantustans, where they were plunged into poverty and hopelessness.”

        https://www.history.com/topics/africa/apartheid

        Kosovo — even the Russians were appalled by the genocide engaged by the Serbs.

        I have no interpretation to give. I won’t speculate about the details of the process. But the pressure to end it officially, even if in name only became obvious as early as the 1980’s (my speculation). A conservative US Congress over rode a presidential veto on this question.

      182. Anonymous[217] • Disclaimer says:
        @Mark G.
        Rosie has said before she believes in a welfare state that transfers money from men to women, affirmative action that puts men at a disadvantage when applying for jobs and that current divorce and child support laws really favor men but two thirds of divorces are initiated by women because they are irrational and don't understand that the divorce will favor the husband. I don't see how a WN ideology that includes all this is going to appeal to many white males. I also don't see how some of the more extreme anti-female remarks made by some male commenters would appeal to many white females. When nonwhites become a majority in this country, white men and white women may need to band together in self-defense so keeping the lines of communication open and not antagonizing each other so much that a future rapprochement becomes impossible might be a good idea.

        Why?

        Someone on this blog (or some other alt-right blog) pointed out that 50% of white guys who are Gen Z will be WN, red-pill, alt-right, and MRA.

        You can’t have a white supremacist ideology without also being male supremacist and hetero supremacist.

        It’s obvious what the white men on this blog think about white women. Let’s not pretend otherwise. If white men want a society totally comprised of straight white men, let it happen. Just don’t force the rest of the world to participate in your ideology or your society.

        I’ll never get within 10 ft of a black or hispanic man but if low IQ prole white women want to, I don’t care. It doesn’t affect me.

        • Replies: @dfordoom

        Someone on this blog (or some other alt-right blog) pointed out that 50% of white guys who are Gen Z will be WN, red-pill, alt-right, and MRA.
         
        You got any actual statistics that actually support such a claim? Sounds like the kind of bizarre wishful thinking that one so often encounters on the dissident right.
        , @Audacious Epigone
        This is a strawman. I don't think there is a single commenter on this site who is a white supremacist. You're just talking about phantoms. Why?
      183. @dfordoom

        White liberals are merely whites who were most successfully indoctrinated into hating themselves and their own kind. They continue to advance and promote that indoctrination but they aren’t the root cause of it.
         
        Is that because white people have no agency? They're just overgrown children? Nothing is their fault.

        That's the way little kids think.

        First step in being a grown-up - take some responsibility.

        Amusing that you would talk about being a grown up right after dropping that silly straw man. Whites are pretty much the only people in the US with any agency, pal.

        If you can actually back up YOUR statement that white liberals are the root of all things bad, or at least refute that examples that I provided, then we might have an adult conversation. Otherwise, speaking in absolutist terms like “white liberals are the root of all problems” is the most childish thing said so far in this thread.

        The saddest thing about you and a lot of the others here in AE’s commentariate, is that you still think political ideology trumps race. It doesn’t. I’ll take the liberal whites over whatever “conservative” POC you can muster up. Most liberal whites still work. They pay taxes. They can function in Western society. Most importantly, they breed white children. Less than we need sure, but with proper rearing and education, liberal whites’ children can be taught to respect and appreciate and take pride in their heritage, culture, and future. They can be taught to work in their own self interests and not be made to feel evil about it.

        • Replies: @dfordoom

        The saddest thing about you and a lot of the others here in AE’s commentariate, is that you still think political ideology trumps race. It doesn’t.
         
        The problem with those who espouse race as the answer to everything is that they blithely overlook other factors. They become very blinkered and obsessive in their thinking, often in a very unhealthy way.

        I think culture, class and ideology are crucial. Class is the elephant in the room that the race-obsessed refuse to see. We're not in the middle of a race war. We're in the middle of a class war, with the elites using race as a weapon and as a distraction. They can't believe that so many people are dumb enough to take the race bait. If we take the race bait we lose. That's the way the elites have set up the game.
      184. @216
        I'd amend your description to say "postgraduate white liberals". If liberalism was mainly a low class phenomenon, it wouldn't have the nation-wrecking power, it would just be an occassional irritant of either/or labor unions and secularism.

        We have a situation where the culture industry is entirely dominated by left-liberals, and conservatives are either not represented or actively excluded.

        IMO, I don't hold liberals entirely responsible for this. Cons are very ineffective at boycotts, and they furthermore have never obstructed liberals from assuming positions of influence in ostensibly conservative movements.

        Would it kill the typical boomercon to cut out sportsball? No, but they engage in the male hamster whenever anyone points it out.

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFGXyn60iC8

        That’s an original meme from our humble outpost at 11 seconds in.

        Is this Ryan Faulk or Sean Last or someone else from the Alt Hype?

      185. @MikeatMikedotMike
        "My point was that white liberals will take steps to ensure that those identity pawns are not kept out of the place. As long as you have white liberals you will get diversity."

        And my point is: only if they are allowed to. They've been allowed to. This what The ZBlog refers to as Buckley Conservatism: Basically making small concessions to every leftist demand until the next thing you know The National Review is making the conservative case for underage transsexual marriages between aborted fetuses.

        "It’s the white liberals who are the root cause of the problem. They are the root cause of all our problems."

        They aren't the root cause of the Federal Reserve, endless middle eastern wars, the Frankfurt School, Hollywood propaganda, crony capitalism/corporate welfare, Wall Street corruption, banking cartels, usury, or cultural Marxism.

        White liberals are merely whites who were most successfully indoctrinated into hating themselves and their own kind. They continue to advance and promote that indoctrination but they aren't the root cause of it.

        the next thing you know The National Review is making the conservative case for underage transsexual marriages between aborted fetuses.

        Pure gold.

      186. @EliteCommInc.
        Correction: My feelings have nothing to do with it.

        As for Mr. Mandella to Pres Mandella . . .

        The founders of the US started a war for less. And your comments make it clear that you don't comprehend self determination or at least you comprehend it as a right for some not others. Had the South Africans in authority respected "self determination" they would have handed the country back the native population or at the very least asked whether they approved of the leadership in question such as to participate.

        Based on the evidence of conduct, there is someone here acting emotionally. And I don't think it is me. I expressly stated my position in relation to the conduct of the leadership ----

        not at all about how I felt.

        And it is your emotions that blind you to a simple truth -- Israel and SA, those in power were very much in agreement in their day.

        https://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/may/23/israel-south-africa-nuclear-weapons

        Handed back? White South Africans were there before black Africans (Bantus, essentially) were. The few H&G clickers who were there before whites like the whites more than they like the blacks, a dynamic that has continued to exist all the way through to the present day.

        • Replies: @216
        To oversimplify:

        The area where the two Boer Republics existed was emptied out by Zulu expansionism known as the Mfecane. If done by whites it would be termed a genocide. The Zulu leader, Shaka, recently got an airport named after him; meanwhile Afrikaner leaders were all purged from public names.

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mfecane

        The rich irony is that in Invictus the Voice of God playing Mandela remarks that flying the old flag is the Afrikaners "constitutional right".

        I imagine they memory hole this.

        BARBARA
        Do you see all the old apartheid
        flags? It's a disgrace.

        Mandela lowers his binoculars.

        MANDELA
        It's also a constitutional right.

        BARBARA
        Along with the apartheid anthem. I
        know. But it's time people moved
        on.
         
        https://www.imsdb.com/scripts/Invictus.html
        , @dfordoom

        White South Africans were there before black Africans (Bantus, essentially) were.
         
        White South Africans behaved very foolishly. They were unnecessarily greedy. They were both arrogant and lazy. They also convinced themselves they could hang on to the whole country. They would have been much wiser to work towards a loose confederation of self-governing states, or even towards eventually breaking the country up into fully independent states. A Bantu state, a Zulu state, a white state. They might have had a chance of ending up with a much smaller country but one in which the whites could have had a very significant amount of political power (maybe even being the dominant group) whilst still being able to say that they had adopted a one man, one vote policy thereby cutting the ground from under their critics.

        South Africa today is certainly a disaster and the ANC is a disaster but it's a disaster that South Africa's whites created for themselves.
      187. You know what else is failing spectacularly? The new comment limitation policy.

        EliteCommInc still managed to sidetrack the thread to South Africa.

        • Replies: @216
        No, I started it as an off topic.

        The original post isn't so much about South Africa, as it is about Zionist hypocrisy.

        South Africa does not have political potency in US debate, for better or worse, Israel is very relevant in US politics.

        People like Shapiro, Peterson, Rubin, Harris, etc; they think of themselves as the leash that reins in conservatives. If Dissident politics is to succeed, these gatekeepers must be exposed.

        EliteComm is constructing epicycles about how self-determination is something that I can't have.
      188. “Handed back? White South Africans were there before black Africans (Bantus, essentially) were. ”

        This is the game of national identity played backwards.

        Keeping it simple, the blacks that occupied the territory we call SA today were farmers and traps that lived in scattered loosely connected communities. And no, their understanding of the land is not the version of western Europe.

        Before the arrival into those territories, blacks worked and operated as the stewards of the land. So ignoring the nation state rhetoric, and for all practical purposes, it should be ignored —

        Blacks were the first and original occupants and “owners” in the understanding of the western mind. And that land gambit utterly undermines any complaints the SA immigrants make on land ownership and original peoples and undermines the suggestion of “self determination” There is no way out of the logical and hypocritical conundrums made in making the case.

        Laughing.

        Who liked who more is simply not a condition of the arguments on the table. No arguments from me that there was not rivalries among blacks as is common to human beings. The issues were centered on blackness and whiteness to government — and given the data, banning the SA flag established by the settlers makes some sense in charting a new course for the country. Nothing in my comments suggests that whites of SA should be given a dose of what the gave.

        —————————————-
        ” . . . still managed to sidetrack the thread to South Africa.”

        1. It is my understanding that three posts are permitted on any one thread per sixty minutes. I think I have attended to the policy as presented.

        2. If you have any evidence that I initiated the discussion about SA national symbols feel free to present it.

        3. Actually, given what has been provided, it’s very clear that the media has failed to provide accurate data to some regarding SA politics, past present and current – specifically regarding the flag of SA as a symbolic emblem. I have provided the current media information against the inaccurate hysterics that are akin to Mr Tucker Carlson’s reporting regarding SA. That would include the unsupported comments that the flag ban is some manner of persecution of white SA – it is not.

        I don’t think the failure rests with me, if there’s failure at all. You can defend inaccuracy if you wish. But in doing so look elsewhere for blame on the introduction of this issue.

        • Replies: @L Woods
        Lmao does this site attract some whack jobs
        , @216

        3. Actually, given what has been provided, it’s very clear that the media has failed to provide accurate data to some regarding SA politics, past present and current – specifically regarding the flag of SA as a symbolic emblem. I have provided the current media information against the inaccurate hysterics that are akin to Mr Tucker Carlson’s reporting regarding SA. That would include the unsupported comments that the flag ban is some manner of persecution of white SA – it is not.
         
        SA rarely features in US media, before Trump mentioned it last year, the last time they were of interest was the 2010 World Cup.

        I could be conspiratorial and suggest that the left-liberal journolists don't want to publish anything that would wash away the 90s tinged "Rainbow" myth. The narrative of the Dissident Right is that SA represents the future that Western elites have planned for the legacy populations.

        But I don't necessarily agree, not much of geopolitical interest happens in South Africa, and its biggest company is a holding company for a Chinese Internet giant. Telling the same story about rampant crime and government corruption gets old.

        Though you won't phrase it the same way, our positions are irreconciliable. You want Afrikaners to suffer the loss of property and privilege to achieve some kind of equality. On top of their having low fertility rates and tremendous pressure to assimilate. Somehow when equality is achieved, whites will lose the aspects of their culture that leads to imperialism and oppression.

        Banning the flag is black fragility. That's not an endorsement of it, or an endorsement of the use of CSA flags in the US. I oppose that, and you can use the "search" function to scroll my posting history where I repeatedly condemned the Charlottesville riots. But perhaps you don't know what "search" is, because the name David Mabuza didn't come up in your earlier rebuttal.
      189. 216 says: • Website
        @Audacious Epigone
        Handed back? White South Africans were there before black Africans (Bantus, essentially) were. The few H&G clickers who were there before whites like the whites more than they like the blacks, a dynamic that has continued to exist all the way through to the present day.

        To oversimplify:

        The area where the two Boer Republics existed was emptied out by Zulu expansionism known as the Mfecane. If done by whites it would be termed a genocide. The Zulu leader, Shaka, recently got an airport named after him; meanwhile Afrikaner leaders were all purged from public names.

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mfecane

        The rich irony is that in Invictus the Voice of God playing Mandela remarks that flying the old flag is the Afrikaners “constitutional right”.

        I imagine they memory hole this.

        BARBARA
        Do you see all the old apartheid
        flags? It’s a disgrace.

        Mandela lowers his binoculars.

        MANDELA
        It’s also a constitutional right.

        BARBARA
        Along with the apartheid anthem. I
        know. But it’s time people moved
        on.

        https://www.imsdb.com/scripts/Invictus.html

      190. 216 says: • Website
        @Intelligent Dasein
        You know what else is failing spectacularly? The new comment limitation policy.

        EliteCommInc still managed to sidetrack the thread to South Africa.

        No, I started it as an off topic.

        The original post isn’t so much about South Africa, as it is about Zionist hypocrisy.

        South Africa does not have political potency in US debate, for better or worse, Israel is very relevant in US politics.

        People like Shapiro, Peterson, Rubin, Harris, etc; they think of themselves as the leash that reins in conservatives. If Dissident politics is to succeed, these gatekeepers must be exposed.

        EliteComm is constructing epicycles about how self-determination is something that I can’t have.

        • Replies: @Twinkie

        The original post isn’t so much about South Africa, as it is about Zionist hypocrisy.
         
        You, of course, know that RSA and Israel were allies. Whence do you think the Galil rifles came?

        Do you actually know white South African emigres and have talked to them? Or are you just reciting whatever is in AmRen and such?

        A close friend of mine is a pilot and a PMC, and used to be RSA security forces personnel who saw lots of action along the Mozambique border. He and many other Afrikaners I have conversed with over the years are clear about the collapse of order and security in large swathes of the country as well as the extreme corruption, incompetence, etc. (typical of a sub-Saharan African-run country), but they also don't recognize in their country the heated and inflated white genocide rhetoric emanating from the likes of AmRen and Storm Front.
      191. @EliteCommInc.
        "Handed back? White South Africans were there before black Africans (Bantus, essentially) were. "

        This is the game of national identity played backwards.


        Keeping it simple, the blacks that occupied the territory we call SA today were farmers and traps that lived in scattered loosely connected communities. And no, their understanding of the land is not the version of western Europe.

        Before the arrival into those territories, blacks worked and operated as the stewards of the land. So ignoring the nation state rhetoric, and for all practical purposes, it should be ignored ---

        Blacks were the first and original occupants and "owners" in the understanding of the western mind. And that land gambit utterly undermines any complaints the SA immigrants make on land ownership and original peoples and undermines the suggestion of "self determination" There is no way out of the logical and hypocritical conundrums made in making the case.

        Laughing.

        Who liked who more is simply not a condition of the arguments on the table. No arguments from me that there was not rivalries among blacks as is common to human beings. The issues were centered on blackness and whiteness to government --- and given the data, banning the SA flag established by the settlers makes some sense in charting a new course for the country. Nothing in my comments suggests that whites of SA should be given a dose of what the gave.


        ----------------------------------------
        " . . . still managed to sidetrack the thread to South Africa."

        1. It is my understanding that three posts are permitted on any one thread per sixty minutes. I think I have attended to the policy as presented.

        2. If you have any evidence that I initiated the discussion about SA national symbols feel free to present it.

        3. Actually, given what has been provided, it's very clear that the media has failed to provide accurate data to some regarding SA politics, past present and current - specifically regarding the flag of SA as a symbolic emblem. I have provided the current media information against the inaccurate hysterics that are akin to Mr Tucker Carlson's reporting regarding SA. That would include the unsupported comments that the flag ban is some manner of persecution of white SA - it is not.

        I don't think the failure rests with me, if there's failure at all. You can defend inaccuracy if you wish. But in doing so look elsewhere for blame on the introduction of this issue.

        Lmao does this site attract some whack jobs

      192. 216 says: • Website
        @EliteCommInc.
        "Handed back? White South Africans were there before black Africans (Bantus, essentially) were. "

        This is the game of national identity played backwards.


        Keeping it simple, the blacks that occupied the territory we call SA today were farmers and traps that lived in scattered loosely connected communities. And no, their understanding of the land is not the version of western Europe.

        Before the arrival into those territories, blacks worked and operated as the stewards of the land. So ignoring the nation state rhetoric, and for all practical purposes, it should be ignored ---

        Blacks were the first and original occupants and "owners" in the understanding of the western mind. And that land gambit utterly undermines any complaints the SA immigrants make on land ownership and original peoples and undermines the suggestion of "self determination" There is no way out of the logical and hypocritical conundrums made in making the case.

        Laughing.

        Who liked who more is simply not a condition of the arguments on the table. No arguments from me that there was not rivalries among blacks as is common to human beings. The issues were centered on blackness and whiteness to government --- and given the data, banning the SA flag established by the settlers makes some sense in charting a new course for the country. Nothing in my comments suggests that whites of SA should be given a dose of what the gave.


        ----------------------------------------
        " . . . still managed to sidetrack the thread to South Africa."

        1. It is my understanding that three posts are permitted on any one thread per sixty minutes. I think I have attended to the policy as presented.

        2. If you have any evidence that I initiated the discussion about SA national symbols feel free to present it.

        3. Actually, given what has been provided, it's very clear that the media has failed to provide accurate data to some regarding SA politics, past present and current - specifically regarding the flag of SA as a symbolic emblem. I have provided the current media information against the inaccurate hysterics that are akin to Mr Tucker Carlson's reporting regarding SA. That would include the unsupported comments that the flag ban is some manner of persecution of white SA - it is not.

        I don't think the failure rests with me, if there's failure at all. You can defend inaccuracy if you wish. But in doing so look elsewhere for blame on the introduction of this issue.

        3. Actually, given what has been provided, it’s very clear that the media has failed to provide accurate data to some regarding SA politics, past present and current – specifically regarding the flag of SA as a symbolic emblem. I have provided the current media information against the inaccurate hysterics that are akin to Mr Tucker Carlson’s reporting regarding SA. That would include the unsupported comments that the flag ban is some manner of persecution of white SA – it is not.

        SA rarely features in US media, before Trump mentioned it last year, the last time they were of interest was the 2010 World Cup.

        I could be conspiratorial and suggest that the left-liberal journolists don’t want to publish anything that would wash away the 90s tinged “Rainbow” myth. The narrative of the Dissident Right is that SA represents the future that Western elites have planned for the legacy populations.

        But I don’t necessarily agree, not much of geopolitical interest happens in South Africa, and its biggest company is a holding company for a Chinese Internet giant. Telling the same story about rampant crime and government corruption gets old.

        Though you won’t phrase it the same way, our positions are irreconciliable. You want Afrikaners to suffer the loss of property and privilege to achieve some kind of equality. On top of their having low fertility rates and tremendous pressure to assimilate. Somehow when equality is achieved, whites will lose the aspects of their culture that leads to imperialism and oppression.

        Banning the flag is black fragility. That’s not an endorsement of it, or an endorsement of the use of CSA flags in the US. I oppose that, and you can use the “search” function to scroll my posting history where I repeatedly condemned the Charlottesville riots. But perhaps you don’t know what “search” is, because the name David Mabuza didn’t come up in your earlier rebuttal.

      193. @MikeatMikedotMike
        Amusing that you would talk about being a grown up right after dropping that silly straw man. Whites are pretty much the only people in the US with any agency, pal.

        If you can actually back up YOUR statement that white liberals are the root of all things bad, or at least refute that examples that I provided, then we might have an adult conversation. Otherwise, speaking in absolutist terms like "white liberals are the root of all problems" is the most childish thing said so far in this thread.


        The saddest thing about you and a lot of the others here in AE's commentariate, is that you still think political ideology trumps race. It doesn't. I'll take the liberal whites over whatever "conservative" POC you can muster up. Most liberal whites still work. They pay taxes. They can function in Western society. Most importantly, they breed white children. Less than we need sure, but with proper rearing and education, liberal whites' children can be taught to respect and appreciate and take pride in their heritage, culture, and future. They can be taught to work in their own self interests and not be made to feel evil about it.

        The saddest thing about you and a lot of the others here in AE’s commentariate, is that you still think political ideology trumps race. It doesn’t.

        The problem with those who espouse race as the answer to everything is that they blithely overlook other factors. They become very blinkered and obsessive in their thinking, often in a very unhealthy way.

        I think culture, class and ideology are crucial. Class is the elephant in the room that the race-obsessed refuse to see. We’re not in the middle of a race war. We’re in the middle of a class war, with the elites using race as a weapon and as a distraction. They can’t believe that so many people are dumb enough to take the race bait. If we take the race bait we lose. That’s the way the elites have set up the game.

        • Replies: @216

        with the elites using race as a weapon and as a distraction
         
        White identity politics (Redstan) receives next to zero support from elites, and is actively suppressed and/or subverted.

        This is distinct from center-right parties "white identity pandering" or "dog-whistling", which the left calls "white nationalism".

        There are more than one form of "white identity politics" and the worse is white professional class liberals. It is they who are the enforcers of the elite, and arguably the real enemy. Displace the professional class, and the elite are brought to heel. It is not an accident that the Right is locked out of the culture industry and academia.
        , @MikeatMikedotMike
        "The problem with those who espouse race as the answer to everything is that they blithely overlook other factors."

        I'm still waiting for you to give me an example of how liberal whites are the root cause of every problem.

        "They become very blinkered and obsessive in their thinking, often in a very unhealthy way."

        This is just vague Freudian nonsense.

        "I think culture, class and ideology are crucial. Class is the elephant in the room that the race-obsessed refuse to see. "

        Everything is down stream from race, including class. I can't find the meme, but it shows how the members of the different castes in Indian tend to get lighter skinned as you move up in status. This isn't a coincidence.

        "We’re not in the middle of a race war."

        We're in the middle of a racial cold war. All you have to do is listen to any elected POC for 5 minutes to realize this.

        " We’re in the middle of a class war, with the elites using race as a weapon and as a distraction. They can’t believe that so many people are dumb enough to take the race bait. If we take the race bait we lose. That’s the way the elites have set up the game."

        For a minute there I thought I was reading a David French article.
        , @Audacious Epigone
        It's been a complete and utter success on the left. Sanders genuinely doesn't want to do waaaaycism all the time--not really at all, as his discussion with Joe Rogan revealed--but he won't take a stand against it being the focal point of everything. All the rest of them are on board with it, and so is the Democrat electorate.
      194. @Audacious Epigone
        Handed back? White South Africans were there before black Africans (Bantus, essentially) were. The few H&G clickers who were there before whites like the whites more than they like the blacks, a dynamic that has continued to exist all the way through to the present day.

        White South Africans were there before black Africans (Bantus, essentially) were.

        White South Africans behaved very foolishly. They were unnecessarily greedy. They were both arrogant and lazy. They also convinced themselves they could hang on to the whole country. They would have been much wiser to work towards a loose confederation of self-governing states, or even towards eventually breaking the country up into fully independent states. A Bantu state, a Zulu state, a white state. They might have had a chance of ending up with a much smaller country but one in which the whites could have had a very significant amount of political power (maybe even being the dominant group) whilst still being able to say that they had adopted a one man, one vote policy thereby cutting the ground from under their critics.

        South Africa today is certainly a disaster and the ANC is a disaster but it’s a disaster that South Africa’s whites created for themselves.

        • Agree: Mark G.
        • Replies: @216

        South Africa today is certainly a disaster and the ANC is a disaster but it’s a disaster that South Africa’s whites created for themselves.
         
        They've been powerless to do anything about it, save emigrate, since 1992. So only those born 1974 and earlier can be held accountable.

        And it should not be forgotten that it was the West that refused to force either a Volkstaat or consocial power sharing; and worst of all the Swedes who gave more funding to the ANC than the USSR did.

        adopted a one man, one vote policy
         
        One of the more arrogant things they did was give universal suffrage to whites, while removing the qualified franchise. You cannot have a "national liberalism", a "liberalism in one country/race/etc".

        lazy
         
        Indeed one of the worst aspects of their character. Household servants should be anathema, and they won't give them up. Ideally they'd fire the servants but keep paying them. Such an act more than anything would quiet down black rage.
        , @Talha

        They were unnecessarily greedy.
         
        Well, they certainly shipped in boatloads of people from India and Indonesia/Malaysia for cheap labor (and sometimes exile for causing revolts in their homelands) - sometimes as slaves at the very beginning. Adding a bunch of browns into the mix doesn’t seem to have been very awesomeness for them in the long run.

        The Indian community is so well established there that they have seminaries that can produce bonafide muftis in both the Hanafi and Shafi’i schools (mostly in the Transvaal region). Many of my teachers have studied there.

        Peace.
      195. @L Woods
        OT: saw this comment on EJMR and had to post it. Describes modern life better than my pickled brain can these days:

        Sorry bros, 30 year olds dont find "soul mates" or "true love" or even "a b*tch maybe worth wifing." the single girl of your dreams does not exist at your age. theres no female peer waiting to be your devoted true love. shes already loved and lost or was never capable of loving in the first place and in the "best case" scenario where she agrees to marry youll only ever be her husband accessory and sperm donor. youll never matter more to her than her granite countertops or exposed brick or shoe collection. and youll never truly know her or share a life of intimacy with her. just a checking account and and a netflix password.

        that kind of marriage is for other people. like your grandfather. you remember him, right? the man who didnt meet a broken 30 year old shrew on tinder when he decided to start a family?

        sorry. its just not how people are built and its definitely not how our society works. ljl at finding a pure of heart 29 year girlfriend you will love, honor and cherish for the rest of your life. ljl at knowing you want some b*tch from jdate to be the mother of your children.

        this is just as dumb (and sad) as posters asking how to make new friends moving to a new city at age 34. oh wow what a difficult and confusing question! jk its actually really f**king simple because the answer is you cant make friends in a new city at age 32. people dont make friends--real friends who truly enrich their lives--at 32. they already have those friends and youre just a guy theyre being nice to or hanging out with to pass the time.

        there are no solutions. you done f**ked up if youre romantically/socially isolated at 30. its called life and it already happened for everyone else and youre just the dumbass who decided to start trying with a new job/city/okcupid profile like youre going to still maek it with a loving woman who is 31 and single but totally not broken or slvtty.

        and youre going to find a community of chill, loyal friends and neighbors who genuinely care about you and your family and it will finally be morning in america!

        but then again no.

        it wont be morning in america in your 30s. youre aleady slipping down the slope of a life wasted and in your heart you know that. its not a question of what will happen. it happened. you missed your chance and its only getting worse. time only moves in one direction, f*ggot.

        heres the only advice that can help you: hit the motherf**king reset button and hope your next life isnt the dumpster fire your current one is.
         
        Yay

        I wonder why there are all these mass shootings?

      196. 216 says: • Website
        @dfordoom

        The saddest thing about you and a lot of the others here in AE’s commentariate, is that you still think political ideology trumps race. It doesn’t.
         
        The problem with those who espouse race as the answer to everything is that they blithely overlook other factors. They become very blinkered and obsessive in their thinking, often in a very unhealthy way.

        I think culture, class and ideology are crucial. Class is the elephant in the room that the race-obsessed refuse to see. We're not in the middle of a race war. We're in the middle of a class war, with the elites using race as a weapon and as a distraction. They can't believe that so many people are dumb enough to take the race bait. If we take the race bait we lose. That's the way the elites have set up the game.

        with the elites using race as a weapon and as a distraction

        White identity politics (Redstan) receives next to zero support from elites, and is actively suppressed and/or subverted.

        This is distinct from center-right parties “white identity pandering” or “dog-whistling”, which the left calls “white nationalism”.

        There are more than one form of “white identity politics” and the worse is white professional class liberals. It is they who are the enforcers of the elite, and arguably the real enemy. Displace the professional class, and the elite are brought to heel. It is not an accident that the Right is locked out of the culture industry and academia.

      197. 216 says: • Website
        @dfordoom

        White South Africans were there before black Africans (Bantus, essentially) were.
         
        White South Africans behaved very foolishly. They were unnecessarily greedy. They were both arrogant and lazy. They also convinced themselves they could hang on to the whole country. They would have been much wiser to work towards a loose confederation of self-governing states, or even towards eventually breaking the country up into fully independent states. A Bantu state, a Zulu state, a white state. They might have had a chance of ending up with a much smaller country but one in which the whites could have had a very significant amount of political power (maybe even being the dominant group) whilst still being able to say that they had adopted a one man, one vote policy thereby cutting the ground from under their critics.

        South Africa today is certainly a disaster and the ANC is a disaster but it's a disaster that South Africa's whites created for themselves.

        South Africa today is certainly a disaster and the ANC is a disaster but it’s a disaster that South Africa’s whites created for themselves.

        They’ve been powerless to do anything about it, save emigrate, since 1992. So only those born 1974 and earlier can be held accountable.

        And it should not be forgotten that it was the West that refused to force either a Volkstaat or consocial power sharing; and worst of all the Swedes who gave more funding to the ANC than the USSR did.

        adopted a one man, one vote policy

        One of the more arrogant things they did was give universal suffrage to whites, while removing the qualified franchise. You cannot have a “national liberalism”, a “liberalism in one country/race/etc”.

        lazy

        Indeed one of the worst aspects of their character. Household servants should be anathema, and they won’t give them up. Ideally they’d fire the servants but keep paying them. Such an act more than anything would quiet down black rage.

      198. @dfordoom

        White South Africans were there before black Africans (Bantus, essentially) were.
         
        White South Africans behaved very foolishly. They were unnecessarily greedy. They were both arrogant and lazy. They also convinced themselves they could hang on to the whole country. They would have been much wiser to work towards a loose confederation of self-governing states, or even towards eventually breaking the country up into fully independent states. A Bantu state, a Zulu state, a white state. They might have had a chance of ending up with a much smaller country but one in which the whites could have had a very significant amount of political power (maybe even being the dominant group) whilst still being able to say that they had adopted a one man, one vote policy thereby cutting the ground from under their critics.

        South Africa today is certainly a disaster and the ANC is a disaster but it's a disaster that South Africa's whites created for themselves.

        They were unnecessarily greedy.

        Well, they certainly shipped in boatloads of people from India and Indonesia/Malaysia for cheap labor (and sometimes exile for causing revolts in their homelands) – sometimes as slaves at the very beginning. Adding a bunch of browns into the mix doesn’t seem to have been very awesomeness for them in the long run.

        The Indian community is so well established there that they have seminaries that can produce bonafide muftis in both the Hanafi and Shafi’i schools (mostly in the Transvaal region). Many of my teachers have studied there.

        Peace.

        • Replies: @Twinkie
        Race-aware (or "Apartheid") colonialism is like riding the back of a tiger, sooner or later. You can't keep holding on and you can't get off either. Both choices end up in tears, which is what we are seeing in RSA.

        Historically, only two kinds of conquest worked - depopulation of the locals (and re-settlement by the conquerors) or assimilation and co-mingling (sometimes from conquerors to the conquered, sometimes the other way, other times both directions). Most conquerors didn't want to rule over deserts, so chose the latter. In the case of a few exceptions that opted for the former (the English settlement of America comes to mind), it only worked because the conquerors had unusually high rates of fertility and had a major disease-resistance advantage against the natives (which only rarely existed in the Old World).
      199. @Mr. Frosty
        Women are inherently sociopathic. If allowed to, they will destroy civilization and themselves with it because they are simply wired that way. High-civilization was not possible until the Patriarchy reigned in women's behavior and denied them any authority. Now that women are unrestrained and allowed authority, high-civilization is collapsing before our eyes.

        Prove me wrong

        Women are inherently sociopathic. If allowed to, they will destroy civilization

        What are you talking about? Women and children are what make men want to build and maintain a civilization.

        A band of unattached men are usually wreckers of civilizations, because they live for war, rapine, and destruction. It’s only when they have women and children it dawns on them that they need order and peace (because they can’t be around to protect their women and children 24/7 from other bands of unattached men).

        Women civilize men, period.

        • Agree: Audacious Epigone
        • Replies: @Jim Christian

        Women civilize men, period.
         
        Yeah, right! When married and fulfilling their true purpose. Out in the word is what Frosty is talking about. The involvement of women in academia K-16 and beyond, in the workplace, on Capitol Hill, the Judiciary, the military and corporate life at the top brought the decline.

        You think it was all a coincidence? Under the Matriarchy, Mom, Apple pie and Chevrolet became Mom is a divorced slut, apple pie is a turd in a wax paper wrapper and a Chevrolet is a bent shit can from China. The social discourse is 1000% Radical-Psycho Feminist Democrat-driven.

        Teddy and Tip O'Neil woulda slapped these ladies down. They knew..
        , @L Woods

        What are you talking about? Women and children are what make men want to build and maintain a civilization.
         
        Non-sequitor.

        Women civilize men, period.
         
        Completely, agonizingly laughable. Who do you think is evoking these negative male tendencies to begin with?
        , @iffen
        Women civilize men, period.

        Do trophy wives civilize us?
      200. @216
        No, I started it as an off topic.

        The original post isn't so much about South Africa, as it is about Zionist hypocrisy.

        South Africa does not have political potency in US debate, for better or worse, Israel is very relevant in US politics.

        People like Shapiro, Peterson, Rubin, Harris, etc; they think of themselves as the leash that reins in conservatives. If Dissident politics is to succeed, these gatekeepers must be exposed.

        EliteComm is constructing epicycles about how self-determination is something that I can't have.

        The original post isn’t so much about South Africa, as it is about Zionist hypocrisy.

        You, of course, know that RSA and Israel were allies. Whence do you think the Galil rifles came?

        Do you actually know white South African emigres and have talked to them? Or are you just reciting whatever is in AmRen and such?

        A close friend of mine is a pilot and a PMC, and used to be RSA security forces personnel who saw lots of action along the Mozambique border. He and many other Afrikaners I have conversed with over the years are clear about the collapse of order and security in large swathes of the country as well as the extreme corruption, incompetence, etc. (typical of a sub-Saharan African-run country), but they also don’t recognize in their country the heated and inflated white genocide rhetoric emanating from the likes of AmRen and Storm Front.

        • Replies: @216
        Ernst Roets is a moderate.

        Whence do you think the Galil rifles came?
         
        Finland

        https://digilander.libero.it/ak47web/Valmet_Model_76_Stock_Types1.jpg
      201. @Talha

        They were unnecessarily greedy.
         
        Well, they certainly shipped in boatloads of people from India and Indonesia/Malaysia for cheap labor (and sometimes exile for causing revolts in their homelands) - sometimes as slaves at the very beginning. Adding a bunch of browns into the mix doesn’t seem to have been very awesomeness for them in the long run.

        The Indian community is so well established there that they have seminaries that can produce bonafide muftis in both the Hanafi and Shafi’i schools (mostly in the Transvaal region). Many of my teachers have studied there.

        Peace.

        Race-aware (or “Apartheid”) colonialism is like riding the back of a tiger, sooner or later. You can’t keep holding on and you can’t get off either. Both choices end up in tears, which is what we are seeing in RSA.

        Historically, only two kinds of conquest worked – depopulation of the locals (and re-settlement by the conquerors) or assimilation and co-mingling (sometimes from conquerors to the conquered, sometimes the other way, other times both directions). Most conquerors didn’t want to rule over deserts, so chose the latter. In the case of a few exceptions that opted for the former (the English settlement of America comes to mind), it only worked because the conquerors had unusually high rates of fertility and had a major disease-resistance advantage against the natives (which only rarely existed in the Old World).

        • Replies: @Talha
        That seems to be my reading of history as well. Co-mingling (especially of the conquering elites with local [former] elites) was a pretty fast track to gain legitimacy and staying power.

        As far as shipping in cheap foreign labor and its long term consequences, well the Muslims certainly learned the lesson. They had outsourced their fighting to slave-soldiers from Turkic and Caucasian backgrounds for centuries and eventually those guys simply took over the ship of state in many crucial regions like Egypt.

        Peace.
        , @Johann Ricke

        Most conquerors didn’t want to rule over deserts, so chose the latter.
         
        More to the point, most conquerors needed the manpower. Conquests mean casualties. They have to be replenished. And a bigger empire needs a bigger population to guard it.
      202. @Twinkie

        The original post isn’t so much about South Africa, as it is about Zionist hypocrisy.
         
        You, of course, know that RSA and Israel were allies. Whence do you think the Galil rifles came?

        Do you actually know white South African emigres and have talked to them? Or are you just reciting whatever is in AmRen and such?

        A close friend of mine is a pilot and a PMC, and used to be RSA security forces personnel who saw lots of action along the Mozambique border. He and many other Afrikaners I have conversed with over the years are clear about the collapse of order and security in large swathes of the country as well as the extreme corruption, incompetence, etc. (typical of a sub-Saharan African-run country), but they also don't recognize in their country the heated and inflated white genocide rhetoric emanating from the likes of AmRen and Storm Front.

        Ernst Roets is a moderate.

        Whence do you think the Galil rifles came?

        Finland

        • Replies: @Twinkie
        You are correct. What I meant to ask was, whence the South African R4 rifles came. The answer, of course, is the Israeli Galil.

        Before I ever went to Israel, I was always puzzled to read that the R4’s stock had to be lengthened from the Galil to fit South African soldiers better. I always wondered, “Wow, are Israelis that small?”

        When I went to the Western Wall to see the IDF induction ceremony, I got my answer. IDF conscripts were pretty diminutive - they looked to be the size of our younger teenage boys.
      203. Excuse the length, I want to avoid running afoul of the limit traps and the suggestions of hijacking a thread (seems a common tactic when the proverbial wall is landing on heads around these parts)

        “It’s only when they have women and children it dawns on them that they need order and peace (because they can’t be around to protect their women and children 24/7 from other bands of unattached men).”

        And no level of history supports your point. I would agree that women are not by definition as described, certainly not all women. However, marriage and children have actually been causes to engage in conquest. There’s plenty of warfare ion behalf of women folk and plenty of warfare engaged by women to challenge your advance as any kind of staple.

        The pressure to compete actually increases with the expectation and burden of family. And that pressure is against peace as well, if peace is in the way.
        ——————————

        “” . . . constructing epicycles about how self-determination is something that I can’t have.”

        Laughing, Nonsense.

        You can certainly have said “self determination” but I would have though by now most people capable of mangling reasoning and logic as you have would comprehend that no right is absolute. They exist within the confines and expectations of environments that are subject the whims, desires, demands and expectations of others.

        It’s a very simple claim: flag of SA represented whites and white desires, wants, expectations and demands. Though that same power structure claimed it represented all. So your contend of self determination is not soley about you or about whites or about blacks but as you quipped,

        “all of the people”

        so the discussion is about self determination of all the inhabitants of SA. The previous emblem symbolized something far less. And as such hardly could be a representation of self determination of all the people of SA as you stated is an expectation. So that flagged has been restricted and another one chosen. If you feel afronted by said replacement, I guess you’ll have to take that up with SA.

        My position is simple, given the history, that decision made sense. And your slip and slide that you were just observing that it was the fault of the jews (banning the flag) is bizarre because the Jews were all too happy to benefit as members of the white minority.

        If you live in SA and want to fly the SA flag old — do so. But do take some responsibility for the consequences. And it might be helpful to be informed about the issues with greater breath. And do avoid making false accusations about others, such as they are advocating or justifying genocide.

        I understand that your feelings may be hurt by the younger SA having little tolerance for your brand of national pride. Just note they are disturbed by their parents and grand parents tolerating any of the hypocrisy you want to claim as your right of self determination — which is not soley about you.

        But you are welcome to think so. Though it might be a good idea to abide by your own expectation –

        – “all the people.”

        That’s where you planted your flag. But your assail is anything but that. Strange logic and stranger ethics still.

        “SA rarely features in US media, before Trump mentioned it last year, the last time they were of interest was the 2010 World Cup.”

        I am afraid you’ll have to get out more.

        https://newrepublic.com/article/112499/julius-malema-anc-and-fight-south-africas-future

        https://www.theguardian.com/news/2015/nov/18/why-south-african-students-have-turned-on-their-parents-generation

        https://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/post-apartheid-in-black-and-white/

        https://www.theamericanconservative.com/2013/12/10/what-reagan-got-right-about-south-african-sanctions/

        I guess it depends on where one gets their news. Another completely irrelevant input to the issue of self determination, symbolic emblems and Jewish responsibility for the ban.

        Unfortunately there’s no real way to hold people accountable for their comments. You have repeatedly said things and attributed them to that are totally incorrect in detail or even intent. I have no idea how you went from banning the flag to property being taken away from whites — it is tiresome the number and level of nonsense gets thrown up when someone has fallen into their self created pit — no sale. Nothing in my comments even hunts at your nonsensical claim. I am not SA , so I have no idea if the land reform policy will unravel the previous land grab by the power structure flying the previous flag in the name of “all the people” as noted in the article. But my position that whatever happens it’s fair — but again, I am not so my lens is as a US citizen.

        As a rule, I oppose wanton hypocrisy, deliberately attributing comments that others did not make to their stead, saying one thing and then attempting make a case that what was said is not what was said or intended [when clearly it is, ignoring data because it does not conform to your agenda, and clearly you have an agenda, and I certainly don’t approve of personal attacks.

        I would suggest the fragility here is the inability to take responsibility even after one’s hand has been caught in the till and that is case for the power structure flying the previous flag.

        Laughing. I find it very hard to reconcile with anyone who isn’t even able to reconcile their own arguments. I am not attempting to reconcile anything. My positions do not condone hypocrisy, sleight of hand, contradictions, deliberate misinformation, obfuscation, personal attacks, non-sequitors or kitchen sink, etc.

        Your cries of political persecution remain mere accusations, even those made to gin up votes. It is disappointing that supposed conservatives don’t have the courage to win on the issues. Very much like the tactics of South Africa on the old flag and before a flag was established. My position would reflect the same sentiments if black SA had acted in kind. Thus far, nothing of the kind has taken shape. Though I understand why many would be hurt at having lost the status of government support that included: death squads, kidnapping, false arrests, mass killings, apparently legal land theft, denial access to legal representation, protection of law, financial fraud, jacobin tactics as describe in my supporting material, and a national press apparatus that supported in every way the system, until the system was so exposed for what it was — that even the international community in spite many of our own histories – condemned the matter, etc.

        You may be comforted protected by plenty on this site. But there’s no hiding from the discourse you have made. Reconciliation —

        I think its clear, I don’t seek anything of the kind, unless I find in myself the likes as your own contends or over the top accusations issue related or in your case unrelated and personal or not. You represent a sizable portion of the population. My concern, my deep concern is for the eventual end of the US. For such rhetoric as yours is the foundation upon which are made and ever built.

        What more consequence lay ahead on that sand.

      204. @Twinkie
        Race-aware (or "Apartheid") colonialism is like riding the back of a tiger, sooner or later. You can't keep holding on and you can't get off either. Both choices end up in tears, which is what we are seeing in RSA.

        Historically, only two kinds of conquest worked - depopulation of the locals (and re-settlement by the conquerors) or assimilation and co-mingling (sometimes from conquerors to the conquered, sometimes the other way, other times both directions). Most conquerors didn't want to rule over deserts, so chose the latter. In the case of a few exceptions that opted for the former (the English settlement of America comes to mind), it only worked because the conquerors had unusually high rates of fertility and had a major disease-resistance advantage against the natives (which only rarely existed in the Old World).

        That seems to be my reading of history as well. Co-mingling (especially of the conquering elites with local [former] elites) was a pretty fast track to gain legitimacy and staying power.

        As far as shipping in cheap foreign labor and its long term consequences, well the Muslims certainly learned the lesson. They had outsourced their fighting to slave-soldiers from Turkic and Caucasian backgrounds for centuries and eventually those guys simply took over the ship of state in many crucial regions like Egypt.

        Peace.

      205. @Twinkie

        Women are inherently sociopathic. If allowed to, they will destroy civilization
         
        What are you talking about? Women and children are what make men want to build and maintain a civilization.

        A band of unattached men are usually wreckers of civilizations, because they live for war, rapine, and destruction. It's only when they have women and children it dawns on them that they need order and peace (because they can't be around to protect their women and children 24/7 from other bands of unattached men).

        Women civilize men, period.

        Women civilize men, period.

        Yeah, right! When married and fulfilling their true purpose. Out in the word is what Frosty is talking about. The involvement of women in academia K-16 and beyond, in the workplace, on Capitol Hill, the Judiciary, the military and corporate life at the top brought the decline.

        You think it was all a coincidence? Under the Matriarchy, Mom, Apple pie and Chevrolet became Mom is a divorced slut, apple pie is a turd in a wax paper wrapper and a Chevrolet is a bent shit can from China. The social discourse is 1000% Radical-Psycho Feminist Democrat-driven.

        Teddy and Tip O’Neil woulda slapped these ladies down. They knew..

      206. @Twinkie

        Women are inherently sociopathic. If allowed to, they will destroy civilization
         
        What are you talking about? Women and children are what make men want to build and maintain a civilization.

        A band of unattached men are usually wreckers of civilizations, because they live for war, rapine, and destruction. It's only when they have women and children it dawns on them that they need order and peace (because they can't be around to protect their women and children 24/7 from other bands of unattached men).

        Women civilize men, period.

        What are you talking about? Women and children are what make men want to build and maintain a civilization.

        Non-sequitor.

        Women civilize men, period.

        Completely, agonizingly laughable. Who do you think is evoking these negative male tendencies to begin with?

      207. @Mr. Frosty
        Women are inherently sociopathic. If allowed to, they will destroy civilization and themselves with it because they are simply wired that way. High-civilization was not possible until the Patriarchy reigned in women's behavior and denied them any authority. Now that women are unrestrained and allowed authority, high-civilization is collapsing before our eyes.

        Prove me wrong

        Love to. Can’t.

      208. @Mr. Frosty
        Women are inherently sociopathic. If allowed to, they will destroy civilization and themselves with it because they are simply wired that way. High-civilization was not possible until the Patriarchy reigned in women's behavior and denied them any authority. Now that women are unrestrained and allowed authority, high-civilization is collapsing before our eyes.

        Prove me wrong

        Now that women are unrestrained and allowed authority,

        I just want to clarify something here. What does it mean to “allow” someone authority? Presumably it means, in this context, that the women did not take the authority for themselves but were granted it; but then wouldn’t the real authority—and hence the real responsibility—rest with whomever or whatever was doing the allowing?

        I think Anonymous #645 at comment 112 gave a pretty good hint at the answer, viz. “more powerful men of higher social rank,” but who else would you say it is specifically? The democratic consensus, the zeitgeist, the media, the ZOG?

        • Replies: @Old Palo Altan
        Traditional masculine authority was destroyed in 1918, having been seriously weakened some decades before by the spread of divorce.

        Votes for women came along in very short order, and universal ruin has been the result.

        "Kinder, Küche, Kirche" really is the summit of wisdom on this question.
      209. @Twinkie

        Women are inherently sociopathic. If allowed to, they will destroy civilization
         
        What are you talking about? Women and children are what make men want to build and maintain a civilization.

        A band of unattached men are usually wreckers of civilizations, because they live for war, rapine, and destruction. It's only when they have women and children it dawns on them that they need order and peace (because they can't be around to protect their women and children 24/7 from other bands of unattached men).

        Women civilize men, period.

        Women civilize men, period.

        Do trophy wives civilize us?

      210. @Intelligent Dasein

        Now that women are unrestrained and allowed authority,
         
        I just want to clarify something here. What does it mean to "allow" someone authority? Presumably it means, in this context, that the women did not take the authority for themselves but were granted it; but then wouldn't the real authority---and hence the real responsibility---rest with whomever or whatever was doing the allowing?

        I think Anonymous #645 at comment 112 gave a pretty good hint at the answer, viz. "more powerful men of higher social rank," but who else would you say it is specifically? The democratic consensus, the zeitgeist, the media, the ZOG?

        Traditional masculine authority was destroyed in 1918, having been seriously weakened some decades before by the spread of divorce.

        Votes for women came along in very short order, and universal ruin has been the result.

        “Kinder, Küche, Kirche” really is the summit of wisdom on this question.

        • Replies: @Twinkie

        “Kinder, Küche, Kirche”
         
        Jawohl, mein Herr, Jawohl!
      211. @dfordoom

        The saddest thing about you and a lot of the others here in AE’s commentariate, is that you still think political ideology trumps race. It doesn’t.
         
        The problem with those who espouse race as the answer to everything is that they blithely overlook other factors. They become very blinkered and obsessive in their thinking, often in a very unhealthy way.

        I think culture, class and ideology are crucial. Class is the elephant in the room that the race-obsessed refuse to see. We're not in the middle of a race war. We're in the middle of a class war, with the elites using race as a weapon and as a distraction. They can't believe that so many people are dumb enough to take the race bait. If we take the race bait we lose. That's the way the elites have set up the game.

        “The problem with those who espouse race as the answer to everything is that they blithely overlook other factors.”

        I’m still waiting for you to give me an example of how liberal whites are the root cause of every problem.

        “They become very blinkered and obsessive in their thinking, often in a very unhealthy way.”

        This is just vague Freudian nonsense.

        “I think culture, class and ideology are crucial. Class is the elephant in the room that the race-obsessed refuse to see. ”

        Everything is down stream from race, including class. I can’t find the meme, but it shows how the members of the different castes in Indian tend to get lighter skinned as you move up in status. This isn’t a coincidence.

        “We’re not in the middle of a race war.”

        We’re in the middle of a racial cold war. All you have to do is listen to any elected POC for 5 minutes to realize this.

        ” We’re in the middle of a class war, with the elites using race as a weapon and as a distraction. They can’t believe that so many people are dumb enough to take the race bait. If we take the race bait we lose. That’s the way the elites have set up the game.”

        For a minute there I thought I was reading a David French article.

        • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
        Everything is down stream from race, including class. I can’t find the meme, but it shows how the members of the different castes in Indian tend to get lighter skinned as you move up in status. This isn’t a coincidence.

        India is a complicated place. The south of the country is much wealthier than the north even though the north's population is lighter-skinned. But higher caste tends towards lighter skin. Maybe it's urbanization (I don't know enough), in the same way that San Francisco is wealthier than Idaho even though Idaho is whiter, but lighter skin still correlates strongly with wealth in San Francisco.
      212. @Twinkie
        Race-aware (or "Apartheid") colonialism is like riding the back of a tiger, sooner or later. You can't keep holding on and you can't get off either. Both choices end up in tears, which is what we are seeing in RSA.

        Historically, only two kinds of conquest worked - depopulation of the locals (and re-settlement by the conquerors) or assimilation and co-mingling (sometimes from conquerors to the conquered, sometimes the other way, other times both directions). Most conquerors didn't want to rule over deserts, so chose the latter. In the case of a few exceptions that opted for the former (the English settlement of America comes to mind), it only worked because the conquerors had unusually high rates of fertility and had a major disease-resistance advantage against the natives (which only rarely existed in the Old World).

        Most conquerors didn’t want to rule over deserts, so chose the latter.

        More to the point, most conquerors needed the manpower. Conquests mean casualties. They have to be replenished. And a bigger empire needs a bigger population to guard it.

      213. @Mr. Frosty
        Women are inherently sociopathic. If allowed to, they will destroy civilization and themselves with it because they are simply wired that way. High-civilization was not possible until the Patriarchy reigned in women's behavior and denied them any authority. Now that women are unrestrained and allowed authority, high-civilization is collapsing before our eyes.

        Prove me wrong

        Prove me wrong

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_ancient_Egypt
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_ancient_Sparta

        Many centuries of great civilization with women making and managing their own money, going to school, etc. Their clothes were even more revealing than modern clothes (some fashions of Egyptian dress didn’t cover breasts, and Spartan chitons weren’t sewn together at the side).

        Sociopathic, seriously? Sociopathy aka psychopathy (Jon Ronson in The Psychopath Test says there’s no clear distinction of the terms) affects about 1% of the general population and shows as a grotesque version of masculine traits. Chaotic aggression and criminality if the patient is stupid, “boss from hell” behavior if he’s smart and high-achieving. One of the distinctive traits is shallow affect (no strong emotions).

        I was researching a book about psychopaths and had come to meet Al Dunlap, a merciless cost-cutter and the onetime CEO of Sunbeam, a man who seemed to actually, unlike most humans, enjoy firing people.
        (…)
        Dunlap fired people with such apparent glee that the business magazine Fast Company included him in an article about potentially psychopathic CEOs. All the other CEOs cited were dead or dealing with prison, and therefore unlikely to sue, but it took the plunge with Dunlap anyway, referring to his poor behavioral controls (his first wife charged in her divorce papers that he once threatened her with a knife and muttered that he always wondered what human flesh tasted like) and his lack of empathy (even though he was always telling journalists about his wise and supportive parents, he paid for but didn’t turn up at either of their funerals).
        (…)
        “Oh!” I said. “One more thing. When you see a crime-scene photograph—something really grotesque, someone’s face blown apart—do you react with horror?”

        He shook his head. “No,” he said. “I think I intellectualize it.”

        “Really?” I said. “It makes you curious? It’s absorbing? Like a puzzle to be solved?”

        “Curious.” Al nodded. “As opposed to ‘Oh, my gosh, that’s frightened me!’ ”
        https://www.gq.com/story/your-boss-is-a-psycho-jon-ronson

        Isn’t the red pill orthodoxy that women are direct opposite of that – having too strong emotions, empathyzing with too many and too distant people, crying over upsetting pictures? You have to pick one or another.

        • Replies: @Anonymous
        No. Red pill MRA values are the mirror image of far left anti-male values.

        If an empirical study shows that men are better than women at doing activity X, Y, or Z, then spread it like it's the gospel.

        If an empirical study shows that men are WORSE than women at doing activity A, B, or C, then ignore it, and instead accuse women of the very negative traits men have.

        The extreme right and the extreme left are merely two sides of one coin.
      214. @Anonymous
        Why?

        Someone on this blog (or some other alt-right blog) pointed out that 50% of white guys who are Gen Z will be WN, red-pill, alt-right, and MRA.

        You can't have a white supremacist ideology without also being male supremacist and hetero supremacist.

        It's obvious what the white men on this blog think about white women. Let's not pretend otherwise. If white men want a society totally comprised of straight white men, let it happen. Just don't force the rest of the world to participate in your ideology or your society.

        I'll never get within 10 ft of a black or hispanic man but if low IQ prole white women want to, I don't care. It doesn't affect me.

        Someone on this blog (or some other alt-right blog) pointed out that 50% of white guys who are Gen Z will be WN, red-pill, alt-right, and MRA.

        You got any actual statistics that actually support such a claim? Sounds like the kind of bizarre wishful thinking that one so often encounters on the dissident right.

        • Replies: @Anonymous
        I only have an anecdote. I don't remember which alt-right blog it was, but some other commenter said he believes that 50% of white guys from Gen Z onwards will believe in "WN, red-pill, alt-right, and MRA" values.

        It sounds believable. I see so many Gen Z white guys on 4chan, stormfront, amren, the_donald, and other alt-right forums.
      215. @216
        Ernst Roets is a moderate.

        Whence do you think the Galil rifles came?
         
        Finland

        https://digilander.libero.it/ak47web/Valmet_Model_76_Stock_Types1.jpg

        You are correct. What I meant to ask was, whence the South African R4 rifles came. The answer, of course, is the Israeli Galil.

        Before I ever went to Israel, I was always puzzled to read that the R4’s stock had to be lengthened from the Galil to fit South African soldiers better. I always wondered, “Wow, are Israelis that small?”

        When I went to the Western Wall to see the IDF induction ceremony, I got my answer. IDF conscripts were pretty diminutive – they looked to be the size of our younger teenage boys.

      216. @Old Palo Altan
        Traditional masculine authority was destroyed in 1918, having been seriously weakened some decades before by the spread of divorce.

        Votes for women came along in very short order, and universal ruin has been the result.

        "Kinder, Küche, Kirche" really is the summit of wisdom on this question.

        “Kinder, Küche, Kirche”

        Jawohl, mein Herr, Jawohl!

      217. Anonymous[217] • Disclaimer says:
        @dfordoom

        Someone on this blog (or some other alt-right blog) pointed out that 50% of white guys who are Gen Z will be WN, red-pill, alt-right, and MRA.
         
        You got any actual statistics that actually support such a claim? Sounds like the kind of bizarre wishful thinking that one so often encounters on the dissident right.

        I only have an anecdote. I don’t remember which alt-right blog it was, but some other commenter said he believes that 50% of white guys from Gen Z onwards will believe in “WN, red-pill, alt-right, and MRA” values.

        It sounds believable. I see so many Gen Z white guys on 4chan, stormfront, amren, the_donald, and other alt-right forums.

        • Replies: @dfordoom

        I only have an anecdote. I don’t remember which alt-right blog it was, but some other commenter said he believes that 50% of white guys from Gen Z onwards will believe in “WN, red-pill, alt-right, and MRA” values.

        It sounds believable. I see so many Gen Z white guys on 4chan, stormfront, amren, the_donald, and other alt-right forums.
         
        Sounds ludicrously unbelievable to me. Part of the Based Gen Z Will Save Us myth. A few hundred guys on a few internet forums does not translate into 50% of white guys from Gen Z. It's more likely that it translates into a tiny percentage of white guys from Gen Z.

        This is the danger of thinking that online ideological echo chambers reflect the real world. They don't.
      218. Anonymous[217] • Disclaimer says:
        @Toronto Russian

        Prove me wrong
         
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_ancient_Egypt
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_ancient_Sparta

        Many centuries of great civilization with women making and managing their own money, going to school, etc. Their clothes were even more revealing than modern clothes (some fashions of Egyptian dress didn't cover breasts, and Spartan chitons weren't sewn together at the side).

        Sociopathic, seriously? Sociopathy aka psychopathy (Jon Ronson in The Psychopath Test says there's no clear distinction of the terms) affects about 1% of the general population and shows as a grotesque version of masculine traits. Chaotic aggression and criminality if the patient is stupid, "boss from hell" behavior if he's smart and high-achieving. One of the distinctive traits is shallow affect (no strong emotions).

        I was researching a book about psychopaths and had come to meet Al Dunlap, a merciless cost-cutter and the onetime CEO of Sunbeam, a man who seemed to actually, unlike most humans, enjoy firing people.
        (...)
        Dunlap fired people with such apparent glee that the business magazine Fast Company included him in an article about potentially psychopathic CEOs. All the other CEOs cited were dead or dealing with prison, and therefore unlikely to sue, but it took the plunge with Dunlap anyway, referring to his poor behavioral controls (his first wife charged in her divorce papers that he once threatened her with a knife and muttered that he always wondered what human flesh tasted like) and his lack of empathy (even though he was always telling journalists about his wise and supportive parents, he paid for but didn't turn up at either of their funerals).
        (...)
        “Oh!” I said. “One more thing. When you see a crime-scene photograph—something really grotesque, someone's face blown apart—do you react with horror?”

        He shook his head. “No,” he said. “I think I intellectualize it.”

        “Really?” I said. “It makes you curious? It's absorbing? Like a puzzle to be solved?”

        “Curious.” Al nodded. “As opposed to ‘Oh, my gosh, that's frightened me!’ ”
        https://www.gq.com/story/your-boss-is-a-psycho-jon-ronson
         
        Isn't the red pill orthodoxy that women are direct opposite of that - having too strong emotions, empathyzing with too many and too distant people, crying over upsetting pictures? You have to pick one or another.

        No. Red pill MRA values are the mirror image of far left anti-male values.

        If an empirical study shows that men are better than women at doing activity X, Y, or Z, then spread it like it’s the gospel.

        If an empirical study shows that men are WORSE than women at doing activity A, B, or C, then ignore it, and instead accuse women of the very negative traits men have.

        The extreme right and the extreme left are merely two sides of one coin.

        • Replies: @L Woods
        Difference splitting fallacy. No greater hallmark of a small mind
      219. @Anonymous
        Why?

        Someone on this blog (or some other alt-right blog) pointed out that 50% of white guys who are Gen Z will be WN, red-pill, alt-right, and MRA.

        You can't have a white supremacist ideology without also being male supremacist and hetero supremacist.

        It's obvious what the white men on this blog think about white women. Let's not pretend otherwise. If white men want a society totally comprised of straight white men, let it happen. Just don't force the rest of the world to participate in your ideology or your society.

        I'll never get within 10 ft of a black or hispanic man but if low IQ prole white women want to, I don't care. It doesn't affect me.

        This is a strawman. I don’t think there is a single commenter on this site who is a white supremacist. You’re just talking about phantoms. Why?

      220. @dfordoom

        The saddest thing about you and a lot of the others here in AE’s commentariate, is that you still think political ideology trumps race. It doesn’t.
         
        The problem with those who espouse race as the answer to everything is that they blithely overlook other factors. They become very blinkered and obsessive in their thinking, often in a very unhealthy way.

        I think culture, class and ideology are crucial. Class is the elephant in the room that the race-obsessed refuse to see. We're not in the middle of a race war. We're in the middle of a class war, with the elites using race as a weapon and as a distraction. They can't believe that so many people are dumb enough to take the race bait. If we take the race bait we lose. That's the way the elites have set up the game.

        It’s been a complete and utter success on the left. Sanders genuinely doesn’t want to do waaaaycism all the time–not really at all, as his discussion with Joe Rogan revealed–but he won’t take a stand against it being the focal point of everything. All the rest of them are on board with it, and so is the Democrat electorate.

      221. @MikeatMikedotMike
        "The problem with those who espouse race as the answer to everything is that they blithely overlook other factors."

        I'm still waiting for you to give me an example of how liberal whites are the root cause of every problem.

        "They become very blinkered and obsessive in their thinking, often in a very unhealthy way."

        This is just vague Freudian nonsense.

        "I think culture, class and ideology are crucial. Class is the elephant in the room that the race-obsessed refuse to see. "

        Everything is down stream from race, including class. I can't find the meme, but it shows how the members of the different castes in Indian tend to get lighter skinned as you move up in status. This isn't a coincidence.

        "We’re not in the middle of a race war."

        We're in the middle of a racial cold war. All you have to do is listen to any elected POC for 5 minutes to realize this.

        " We’re in the middle of a class war, with the elites using race as a weapon and as a distraction. They can’t believe that so many people are dumb enough to take the race bait. If we take the race bait we lose. That’s the way the elites have set up the game."

        For a minute there I thought I was reading a David French article.

        Everything is down stream from race, including class. I can’t find the meme, but it shows how the members of the different castes in Indian tend to get lighter skinned as you move up in status. This isn’t a coincidence.

        India is a complicated place. The south of the country is much wealthier than the north even though the north’s population is lighter-skinned. But higher caste tends towards lighter skin. Maybe it’s urbanization (I don’t know enough), in the same way that San Francisco is wealthier than Idaho even though Idaho is whiter, but lighter skin still correlates strongly with wealth in San Francisco.

      222. Meant to be a reply to AE.

        India is just an example to make a point, but feel free to examine the skin tone of the upper classes of Brazil, Mexico, Cuba, Argentina, etc. Hell even Bashar Assad looks part Euro and his wife looks like a French broad.

        I’m not saying class doesn’t exist, and in a homogeneous country perhaps everything else is downstream from class, as race isn’t a factor then.

        San Fransisco was already much wealthier than Idaho when both places were still mostly white. Detroit was also likely much wealthier than Idaho back in the 50’s. Now? Unlikely.

        I’m perfectly willing to entertain any examples of something actually upstream from race.

        • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
        Your general point is well taken. India seems more like a contemporary exception to a general rule. I just pointed it out to show off how smart and cultured I am!
      223. @Anonymous
        I only have an anecdote. I don't remember which alt-right blog it was, but some other commenter said he believes that 50% of white guys from Gen Z onwards will believe in "WN, red-pill, alt-right, and MRA" values.

        It sounds believable. I see so many Gen Z white guys on 4chan, stormfront, amren, the_donald, and other alt-right forums.

        I only have an anecdote. I don’t remember which alt-right blog it was, but some other commenter said he believes that 50% of white guys from Gen Z onwards will believe in “WN, red-pill, alt-right, and MRA” values.

        It sounds believable. I see so many Gen Z white guys on 4chan, stormfront, amren, the_donald, and other alt-right forums.

        Sounds ludicrously unbelievable to me. Part of the Based Gen Z Will Save Us myth. A few hundred guys on a few internet forums does not translate into 50% of white guys from Gen Z. It’s more likely that it translates into a tiny percentage of white guys from Gen Z.

        This is the danger of thinking that online ideological echo chambers reflect the real world. They don’t.

      224. @MikeatMikedotMike
        Meant to be a reply to AE.


        India is just an example to make a point, but feel free to examine the skin tone of the upper classes of Brazil, Mexico, Cuba, Argentina, etc. Hell even Bashar Assad looks part Euro and his wife looks like a French broad.

        I'm not saying class doesn't exist, and in a homogeneous country perhaps everything else is downstream from class, as race isn't a factor then.

        San Fransisco was already much wealthier than Idaho when both places were still mostly white. Detroit was also likely much wealthier than Idaho back in the 50's. Now? Unlikely.

        I'm perfectly willing to entertain any examples of something actually upstream from race.

        Your general point is well taken. India seems more like a contemporary exception to a general rule. I just pointed it out to show off how smart and cultured I am!

      225. @Anonymous
        No. Red pill MRA values are the mirror image of far left anti-male values.

        If an empirical study shows that men are better than women at doing activity X, Y, or Z, then spread it like it's the gospel.

        If an empirical study shows that men are WORSE than women at doing activity A, B, or C, then ignore it, and instead accuse women of the very negative traits men have.

        The extreme right and the extreme left are merely two sides of one coin.

        Difference splitting fallacy. No greater hallmark of a small mind

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